SparkToro's webinar-to-blog content strategy | Amanda Natividad

[00:00:00] Ramli John: Great content is like an amazing dish. It's meant to be remixed and shared. That means a great blog post should also be visualized and explained in the webinar, written as a Twitter tread, and discussed in a podcast. Doing so makes it easy for people to consume your content how they want to, whether they're attending a live webinar or listening to a podcast while at the gym.

[00:00:21] That's exactly the content strategy that Amanda Natividad, VP of Marketing at SparkToro, uses to maximize the reach of the content she writes. Today, Amanda discusses the webinar-to-blog post strategy she uses to repurpose SparkToro's popular office hour webinars attended by thousands of marketers into blog posts. 

[00:00:39] Amanda Natividad: As you're presenting your ideas, then you can start to pick up on how your audience is reacting to it, right?

[00:00:45] You start to see things like, maybe people participating in live chat saying, "Oh, that's a really good example." Or, wait, what about this use case? Hold on. I don't really understand what you mean when you said this. So those are things that give you clues as to maybe some of the ideas you have to harden.

[00:01:04] Maybe additional examples you have to source . All the things that would turn your blog posts from a B-plus to an A-plus. 

[00:01:11] Ramli John: In this Marketing Powerups episode, you learn first why repurposing webinars to blog posts might be better than the other way around. Second, Amanda's detailed process for turning webinars into blog posts.

[00:01:23] Third, the art of coining terms like Zero-Click Content. And fourth, a resume tip that's helped her transition from a test kitchen chef to a VP of marketing of a fast-growing startup. Before we start, I've created a power up cheat sheet that you can use, download, and fill in to apply Amanda's webinar to blog content strategy.

[00:01:42] Go to MarketingPowerups.com to get it right now. That link is in the description and show notes. Are you ready? Let's go! 

[00:01:49] Announcer: Marketing Powerups. Ready? Go. Here's your host, Ramli John. 

[00:02:01] Ramli John: Let's talk about marketing powerups. We're gonna be talking about how your content strategy of turning SparkToro's office hour w ebinars into blog posts. While preparing for the show, you mentioned that many people think that the end result of this should be the webinar because probably setting up a webinar, it just takes a lot longer creating the slides and making sure that people show up for the event.

[00:02:23] But, you actually mentioned that this could be a mistake, that it might sometimes be better to start off with with a webinar first and a blog post. Why is that? 

[00:02:34] Amanda Natividad: To your point, I get it right, creating a webinar, it takes a lot of work, right? You gotta make a landing page, gotta make your slides, promote the event, all that good stuff.

[00:02:43] I definitely think it makes sense that you would think, no, I need to have all the content final before I present this in front of like a hundred plus people. I get it. But the thing is, if you find a way to be comfortable enough with. a little bit of spontaneity and getting some feedback.

[00:03:03] You can use the opportunity to make your presentation better. So maybe it's more like what you should have is like a blog outline. Maybe have a sense of what you would say. And that's what you would do at any presentation, right? You would have essentially, Some kind of thesis statement. So you should have it.

[00:03:19] Have your examples, put them together in your slides, right? Walk people through it, and as you're presenting your ideas, then you can start to pick up on how your audience is reacting to it, right? You start to see things like, , maybe people participating in the live chat saying, oh, that's a really good example.

[00:03:37] Or, wait, what about this use case? Or, hold on, I don't really understand what you mean when you said this. So those are things that give you clues as to maybe some of the ideas you have to harden. Maybe additional examples. You have to source all the things that would turn your blog post from a b plus to.

[00:03:56] An A plus. 

[00:03:57] Ramli John: Makes sense. So you're taking the context, like when you create an outline, you might have missed a certain point or a context or a question that comes up during the webinar from an audience. And I was like, oh, I shouldn't include that in my blog post . And that's totally what I'm hearing here.

[00:04:14] Amanda Natividad: Totally. And if you have on your webinar like. Three examples of how to do something and somebody wants a fourth one, that's okay. So there's also guess what I'm trying to get at here is not to feel self-conscious about it because no attendees is thinking, oh my gosh, they're so not prepared.

[00:04:30] They only had three or four examples, not five. And that's what I also mean about yeah. Have a thesis statement, have the idea, like mostly baked out just so you get to the point that once you get the feedback the questions responses that oh, this is like this one concept that I mentioned.

[00:04:49] This resonated better than I thought it would I should write more about that piece. 

[00:04:53] Ramli John: The other thing that I, that just hit me now is that when you start off with a webinar, you think about slides, but a lot of really great block posts, they have great images and you're actually thinking about images before you even write it.

[00:05:09] So now, , those slides can be reused as a visual. Visual cues are a visual support in the blog post itself. 

[00:05:17] Amanda Natividad: That's a really good point. Yeah. You can start taking some of the elements from there and interspersing it within your blog post. And then maybe if it even made sense, you could even embed like the p d f of your presentation in the blog post.

[00:05:30] But that could work. 

[00:05:31] Ramli John: I know we keep hammering it, but like you probably can't take like snippets of the webinar itself and embed it within. take a 30-second snippet and embed it into the blog post itself. If that, that makes sense as well. So there are many ways to repurpose it matters.

[00:05:43] Amanda Natividad: Totally. And actually that's what we did with at least one of our at least one of our blog posts like we did. This is a while back, but we did a webinar on cold outreach on like how to do it and basically and from like end to end, like how to find people to reach out to how to write that outreach letter.

[00:06:04] How to position your, offer yourself in a way that people will actually respond like all this advice that you would need. And we also included how you would happen to do it using Spark Toro. So we did this webinar and then after that I use like some of the feedback from the presentation to make the blog posts version of it better.

[00:06:23] And so now I think if you go to like cold out, if you like look for cold outreach done spark Toro, you can find it on the blog and you'll see. It's a pretty long blog post and I think there're Yeah, they're also visuals from my presentation itself. And I also just put in the YouTube video of the webinar and was like, by the way, here's a video version of this blog post.

[00:06:45] And I do use some different terminology, like different named like coined phrases. Cause I was realizing as I was writing it out oh, I think I said something. I don't remember. I think it was something that I, I said clusters versus aggregators, or it might have been aggregators versus clusters.

[00:07:06] I don't remember what it was now, but I realized one was better than the other because it made more sense. It was actually just more accurate and I was like, oh, I shouldn't have said that in the webinar. I should have said this instead, so I just fixed it. just made the idea better. 

[00:07:18] Ramli John: That's really I mean we're gonna dig into that a little bit further.

[00:07:22] To put into contexts for people who might not know, you host SparkToro 's Office Hour, which is a live event with Rand Fishkin to help people get the most out of SparkToro and uplevel the marketing strategy. So you've been hosting this events and you've been transferring that into, to some of them, into blog posts.

[00:07:40] How do you figure out which ones to, to turn to blog post? And you, before we started recording, you said some of them you decided to do it the other way where you did start off with a blog post and then went to a webinar. How do you figure out which one to start off with and which one you should like should be the end result?

[00:07:58] Amanda Natividad: I really wish I had a smarter answer than, oh we feel like because I it's a combination of if we get a lot. , if we've received several questions around a similar topic, it might be like, huh, two people. Or it might even just be two people, like two people asked about we'll just say cold outreach.

[00:08:20] Then it was like, oh, I have a point of view on this. I'm gonna write something. So that, or so that's one thing that guides it. Sometimes it's also. Rander, I will have an upcoming talk at a different event. And so as we're preparing for that, we're like, oh, maybe we can use office hours as like the practice version.

[00:08:40] And so it's oh, it's like similar. That's smart , but not really. Yeah. So it's like a test run. But obviously it's still like something we work hard on. 

[00:08:51] Ramli John: But it's a warmer audience, right? Like those people want to hear like they totally know your brand. They know you and Rand versus.

[00:08:56] Those events might be cold. Like they might not know either you or even SparkToro. So 

[00:09:03] Amanda Natividad: that's super smart. Yeah, that's a really good point. I love that you said warmer audience. That's exactly it. Yeah. 

[00:09:08] Ramli John: So then you've been doing this this events and then you're trying to figure it out.

[00:09:12] I have to backtrack a little bit. It said you mentioned all it depends on how you feel about the topic itself. Like testing it out in a webinar is actually a smart idea, especially if it's a new. because you're getting that instantaneous live feedback right away, like we talked about earlier.

[00:09:29] Maybe that's one approach is if it's a new term you coined , or let's say it's a new topic you can you get that instant feedback on in the chat right away within the webinar rather than blog posts. You're waiting for people to send you messages. Or an email or to respond to something, which could take that feedback loop a lot longer than if it was like over a webinar.

[00:09:56] Amanda Natividad: Getting that instant feedback is just super helpful. And when I talk about this, I think it's just important to note that feedback doesn't come in the form of. asking, Hey, audience, like what's your feedback on this? Feedback just comes in the form of if they laugh at one of your jokes, like one of your funny examples, right?

[00:10:15] That's feedback. If they look confused or I don't know, maybe like a lot of these are not really, not everyone's on camera, right? But someone seems confused. Someone says, how? What do you mean by this? , that's feedback, right? So these are all things that will help you inform how to make your the final product even better. 

[00:10:34] Ramli John: For people who are thinking about writing a book, I tell them one of the best advice I that I've gotten from r Ralph Fitzpatrick who wrote the mom test, is that. , don't write the book, actually do a webinar or training first, cuz then you can test, run your outline. You can test run your stories. You can test, run your ideas before you start writing, which is very similar here, where your your test essentially testing your ideas and potentially your data or your charts or your stories that you would include in the blog post, especially if it's a.

[00:11:08] pillar post or a pillar piece that you have on your blog. 

[00:11:11] Amanda Natividad: Man, I gotta read that book. I feel like that's one of those hall of shame, like you have to have read that. I hear just fantastic things about his books. 

[00:11:19] Ramli John: I wanna jump in and talk about that cold outreach one. It's available on your blog.

[00:11:23] I'm gonna be looking at in, in the show notes as well as in the description. Did you like just translate word for not necessarily word for word, but outline by outline to the blog post? Approach to turning a webinar into to a blog and potentially making it better, like what you mentioned earlier.

[00:11:39] Amanda Natividad: So the this one work, it worked really well for the translation of webinar to blog posts because it's very step by step, right? Like the intro was like block col, cold outreach socks. If. , you're on the receiving end and the person sends you a terrible message like, blah, blah, blah. Relatable statement.

[00:11:57] So you have your intro pretty easy to do. And then it just immediately went into here's a smarter way to do it, especially if you are a lean team. If you're doing this alone for PR outreach or if you're doing it alone for a career transition, like if you're looking for a new job.

[00:12:17] And so I get into, I should just know this, but like I get into the cluster source of information where I think I basically said first look at your cluster source of information, which is places where you can find additional leads. So I gave a couple of examples, which would be things like, one of my favorite ones for people looking for a new job is looking at wealth front.

[00:12:43] Career launching companies list. I think it's like a hundred companies. I don't know if they still do this. Cause I, I think the last time I checked it was 2021. But they make a list of fast rising startups based on I think like growth or revenue. So if you're just looking for a bunch of cool startups to apply, , there's your list.

[00:13:05] Like just start there, right? And then from there, find all their open job listings. So that's one example of a cluster source. The other example I had was something about it was more Spark Toro related. So I gave an example using one of Spark Toro's free tools like Spark Score. And Spark Score is a tool that we have or you can put in your, or anybody's Twitter.

[00:13:27] To understand the overall engagement or like the overall engagement of that person's profile relative to others, right? So it helps you better understand like, Okay. Like I don't need to reach out to or follow somebody who has 200,000 Twitter followers. I wanna find someone who has 5,000 Twitter fol.

[00:13:48] know, It doesn't really, it might not even matter what the count really is. And maybe you wanna understand like maybe this person with 3000 followers. Is really influential in a specific niche. So the Spark score would give you a sense of like how engaging their content is, all that good stuff.

[00:14:04] But it also shows related accounts to that one account. It shows, I think nine, nine other accounts that are one accounts that person tends to engage with. . So it would give you clues as to whether maybe it means they're coworkers or they're good friends, or it means they're in a similar niche, so it helps you find other people to reach out to.

[00:14:25] So I might just stop there because that's like way in the weeds of this, but No, that'll make sense. But starting from that building blocks of here's how to get your source of information. Next is here's how you position yourself. Or next is here's how you should consider making your online presence more appeal.

[00:14:43] and it was just things like, let's say you're a salesperson and you're reaching out for sales, like your LinkedIn profile shouldn't match it, like it should say sales executive or whatever the title is, not, probably not something vague advocate Ninja hacker. Totally 

[00:14:59] Ramli John: true. . That's so true. I, it totally makes sense how it's laid out. And we, a bunch of the stuff we talked about earlier, like including the video snippet and a lot of the, there's a lot of screenshot of slides that you've used that was in the office hours, is in the blog post itself. And from what I heard, The way that you presented it and the flow is essentially the flow of blog post for this one.

[00:15:22] I wanna compare this to one where it actually started off as a blog post and then it started off as blog post and then turned into webinar. I believe that was one around the zero click content. I believe can you talk a little bit about how that one is different and and how that came across as starting off from the blog post to the webinar and what was the result?

[00:15:43] Amanda Natividad: That one's a little bit of a funny one because it wa because the whole notion of zero click content, right? Zero click content now is standalone content or content that's native to any given platform that presents a standalone idea. wherein clicking to learn more or clicking on the link to read the full context is only additive to the user's experience, not required for their understanding.

[00:16:05] So basically someone can see the tweet and keep scrolling and be, oh, I get it, that's awesome. Got it. And keep scrolling, or whatever that is. So it's an idea that I had been talking about for quite a while. I think it probably first came up actually in my content marketing. my content marketing 2 0 1 course because I do have one of the modules around creating zero click content, and then after that I've mentioned it.

[00:16:31] I mentioned it to random conversation. He was like, , what did you say? And I was like, yeah. I'm like, oh like when you make standalone content, like people have to click. I had just call it zero click content. He was like, ex, he's excuse me, like you have to write that. And I was like, oh, do you think that's a good idea?

[00:16:46] I like, that's how like I didn't, I mean I'm not so like clueless that I didn't think it, that like I thought it was like a crappy idea and didn't think, but I was just like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know if it's a blog post. I'm like, I think it's just like a thing people. and he was like, no, it is definitely a blog post

[00:17:04] So that was when I really very intentionally sat down and was like, oh, I guess it's a blog post. And then wrote out like the, I think it's like 2,500 words. Wow. So it's quite long I think. And then was like, Rand, can you roast me before I publish this? ? So I had his support. Yeah.

[00:17:25] Which is good. And then after that it was, Then it was just like, oh wait, we should just do a webinar on this because we have it . 

[00:17:32] Ramli John: It's funny cuz you did teach it live first in your cohort based course. Yeah. And then that's true. And then you. When you shared it in your cohort in your course, I'm guessing you, did you get any positive feedback?

[00:17:46] They're like, what is this? This is cool. Or I believe you already shared it on Twitter, but that point I'm trying to figure out if you did get some feedback Luke earlier on before it became a 

[00:17:56] Amanda Natividad: blog post. I think so. I think like some students were like, oh, that was cool. Or or I did get a couple of testimonials from people saying oh, the zero click content was a highlight for.

[00:18:06] So yeah, I did, I think what's, what can be challenging in teaching a live course, and this is a live online course, is everyone's in learning mode, right? So you like, it's, it is great, you get to see their faces, but in some ways it's hard to tell as this thing resonates because they're just taking notes and they're and then I'm like, I think I'm losing them.

[00:18:29] right. And then sometimes will be like, oh, that was great. Thanks. I have to go by . You're like, oh, so you did like it. Great. I'm like, I'm glad. Interesting. But I did get some good feedback on it. Yeah. 

[00:18:38] Ramli John: I think that's a really good point around getting feedback. Especially like sometimes you do want to hear from people who might a little bit be more skeptical around.

[00:18:47] different things, but I think people who are on the course are they want to hear from you. They sign up for to hear from you and really learn from new things from you. 

[00:18:56] Amanda Natividad: I do wanna call that out. I like that you said that. I think getting some skepticism is good. I think that's ideal. You wanna get somebody who says something like, I'm not sure what you mean by this, or even just, I'm not sure about that use case because you want someone to challenge you in some way to.

[00:19:13] Oh wait, are they right? Like one, maybe they're right. Maybe you were wrong about something or two. Maybe it helped you think through oh, I see what they're saying, but I need to add more nuance to what I'm saying to make it more accurate. 

[00:19:27] Ramli John: Before we continue, I wanna thank the sponsor for this episode 42 agency.

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[00:20:19] That's offer. Now, let's jump back into this episode. Seems like you're great at coining terms like you have. Zero click content. There's another one that actually came up in a previous recording which I forgot who the person is, but. Permissionless co-marketing. Oh yeah. Permissionless co-marketing.

[00:20:37] Yeah. Which is something that you also coined. How do you come up how do you approach coining a new term? Or a term that you've, do you test it out with people or do you just like going for a walk and then it hits you? Inspiration. What's your approach to coining terms that resonates with, with marketers and other people?

[00:20:58] Amanda Natividad: I love this question and I just, I really wish I had a better answer. . It's a no one has asked this and it's a really good question, but my answer is just I don't know, I just say them . Maybe for permissionless co-marketing for that one. I That's that's a half borrowed term, right?

[00:21:16] People talk about like permissionless apprenticeship. Interesting. I think, yeah, I think that's a thing I wanna say. I wanna say that's a jack butcher thing, I think. But just I think the idea there in being someone's permissionless apprentice is I think it's like reading all their work online, look good.

[00:21:35] I know everything they publish following their work and like treating them as like an asynchronous mentor and then enacting their principles and following their advice. I think that's what that is. So the permission list thing already knew and then I added it to co-marketing. . I don't, and I didn't make up co-marketing.

[00:21:53] That's a thing people know . No, that makes sense. So that one for zero click content, I think I just I think it just clicked in my head. I think it, I just liked it. I think it just was like, this sounds good. I like this. It just captures what I'm trying to say. It's, there's no need to click.

[00:22:11] You can, if you want to I will say though, there are some wise guys now and then who point out actually you have to click to read a thread. So that's still clicking. It's not same. You're like, okay. Yeah. You're like, okay bro. Yeah, I get it. Haha, you're smart. . 

[00:22:30] Ramli John: No it's. , it's so visual. Like it's so easy to get zero click content, like you don't have to click away out of the platform itself.

[00:22:38] And pre permissionless co-marketing reminded me of a Seth Golden term around permission marketing, which is like now you're of switching it around permissionless. Co-marketing that's su super interesting. How you approach that. you, Do you just test it out with a few folks like your family or what do you think about this term or like a few other marketers?

[00:22:59] Do you like workshop that term or do you just share it on Twitter? Twitter's a good instant feedback space where, yeah, share a term and see if people resonate with that particular term. 

[00:23:10] Amanda Natividad: That's true. Yeah, there is some stuff on Twitter that I just throw out there for permissionless co-marketing.

[00:23:16] That one I coined with Corey Haynes on his podcast. Remember we were talking about an idea just randomly on 

[00:23:22] Ramli John: the spot. Yeah. And 

[00:23:22] Amanda Natividad: he just coined. Yeah. Yeah. That one was on the spot. I think he. I think he was talking about the the act of it, like doing it. And I was like, yeah, kinda like permissionless co-marketing.

[00:23:31] And he was like, that's a great term, . And I was like, we made it up together. So that's so good. So that was a good, that was a good example. Cause that was just us like riffing in conversation. and then throwing at the idea and then he immediately reacted to it. 

[00:23:45] Ramli John: Nice. I love it. I totally love this.

[00:23:47] I look forward to your other terms that you will coin in the future. And I will watch out for it on Twitter for sure. I actually wanna switch gears and talk about careers. I know you've been in marketing for over a decade but you actually switch you transitioned from journalism. Chef I train.

[00:24:05] Like what is it like your 

[00:24:07] Amanda Natividad: I worked at a test kitchen. Yeah. 

[00:24:08] Ramli John: Which is super cool cuz now it's totally in vogue. It's like everybody watching the menu or chef's kitchen or things like that. But just wanted to learn from you about a PowerUp that's helped you in that, either in that transition or in your decade in marketing that you can share to folks that they can apply potentially to help accelerate marketing career. 

[00:24:30] Amanda Natividad: So I think my advice will be, it's not really just one tip, it's just generally around improving your resume to get the outcomes you want. When I was in this career transition, I basically was trying to get into marketing from not ever having real marketing experience, having similar adjacent experience to marketing, like I did some social media.

[00:24:55] Just organic social. I worked on events, so these were all things that are related to marketing. Something I did in my resume was I highlighted the things that I did related to marketing and showed not only what I did, but also the outcome of it. So it was like oversaw Facebook and Twitter accounts for company profiles resulting in increased engagement over time.

[00:25:22] Like stuff like, like showing like X percent, I don't remember what it was now, but like showing X percent in growth added 12,000 or 10,000 probably smaller, new followers to our social accounts, like organically, like stuff like that shows okay. Like I and I didn't position myself as a, as any kind of social media expert, right?

[00:25:41] But it was, I was applying for entry level marketing roles ideally in content. And highlighting the things that were related to that. So I think it's really important, and I don't know if it sounds obvious to anyone listening, but I do think it's really important for in your resume to just go line by line and make sure everything you say.

[00:26:05] Is clear as what it is, like what you did and what the outcome was. And it doesn't always have to be like brought in X amount of money through this thing. It doesn't have to be that, or it doesn't have to be like some crazy business outcome. It can be things like it could be culture related, right?

[00:26:20] It could be like created culture committee to celebrate, to start an employee appreciation program like resulted. 50 employees being celebrated or things like that, that are like, that's really nice, right? But there's still an outcome being shown. So I think get, get a little bit creative if you need to, about showing which outcomes you can show, because that's really important.

[00:26:41] And I think. , and I call this out because I sometimes look, I look at friend's resumes, acquaintances resumes, and that's the thing that most people are consistently missing. So true. 

[00:26:52] Ramli John: They're saying what they did, not necessarily the outcome of the actions that they did specifically, 

[00:26:58] Amanda Natividad: right? Yeah, totally.

[00:26:59] They'll say things like oversaw blog, CMS. Rewrote headlines . Wrote SEO blog posts. Cool. I was like, cool. . Yeah. Do any of those blog posts rank high in search? Or did it increase your company's domain authority? Or there are a lot of things you could say that are, or it could be like wrote X amount of blog posts that got shared organically in social, like 50 times, or things like that.

[00:27:29] Another thing I'll add, this is a quirky fun one, is just to kinda spruce up your resume. I'd say look up the company that you're, the company that you're applying to look up their brand hex colors. Interesting. Use it to just spruce up your resume and don't go overboard. Maybe just change the headers, like skills experience.

[00:27:48] Change it to like the Spotify green or things like that. But that's, people notice that stuff. 

[00:27:54] Ramli John: People do notice that, especially in marketing. Like they do care about consistency and brand and oh, this is on brand necessarily. Totally, yeah. Pick out their font. If you figure out what their brand font is like for us at app use, it's moli, which a lot of people wouldn't really care, but if.

[00:28:11] Some people would recognize the font that, that you're using on your resume. Oh, I 

[00:28:15] Amanda Natividad: love that. Yeah. And then oftentimes a lot of these brands have press kits on their website. When you print you can download for free. Yeah. 

[00:28:22] Ramli John: They have like templates, Google Doc . 

[00:28:24] Amanda Natividad: Sometimes they have the actual fonts. Yeah. Or the HOK is PDF booklet of here's how to use our logo.

[00:28:31] Ramli John: You're probably at the stage of a career where you never have to submit ame. I people are just gonna try to poach you. They're just gonna look at your LinkedIn essentially. And I guess that's my question is do you translate those resume bullet points into your LinkedIn or do you just. Leave your LinkedIn access.

[00:28:51] I know some people use LinkedIn to I'm a data source for Google. Or like some kind of like weird thing about LinkedIn, but what's your thoughts about that, like putting on those resume bullets into your profile? 

[00:29:05] Amanda Natividad: I might say do as I say, not as I do because, cause I do think okay, here's what I'll say.

[00:29:12] But when I was more doing doing the more conventional approach to playing for jobs My paper resume was the more detailed version of the LinkedIn one. So the LinkedIn resume is where I would put things like rewrote headlines, wrote SEO blog posts. I might I'll throw in a couple outcomes like.

[00:29:31] Like a couple of career highlights in a given role. But the nitty gritty examples of outcomes would go on my resume itself. I just felt ah, that's closer to the vest, right? I want that, like to be something I'm in control of so that I can give it to someone and they can go through it and ask me about it in person.

[00:29:48] That makes sense. And what I say, do what I say not as I do, is if you were to look at my LinkedIn profile today I have a bunch of like joke 

[00:29:54] Ramli John: stuff on it. , right? Yes. I don't remember something about, I forget, there was like this game that we were playing and then you could do it.

[00:30:02] Oh, the word a 

[00:30:03] Amanda Natividad: wordle, yeah. My word. I put my word score like two outta five or getting it in the second try, right? That's a good score. I put my blood pressure. It's pretty good. And 

[00:30:12] Ramli John: there was somebody I forgot, who put up like, oh, I'm a Google Ads data source and Facebook ads. Like I worked at Facebook as a.

[00:30:19] They mining. I provide them my data so that they can serve me ads or something like that, oh, 

[00:30:25] Amanda Natividad: it's funny. 

[00:30:26] Ramli John: Thanks for sharing that. I actually want to ask you around another piece of advice that in this case you would give yourself, but your younger self. If you can travel back in time and give a younger version of Amanda who's starting out in their career, whether that's they're still in journalism or they're starting to get into marketing.

[00:30:46] What's a piece of advice you'd give your younger version of yourself? 

[00:30:49] Amanda Natividad: Especially in marketing, I would tell myself try more things, experiment more, fail more, apply to more jobs. I just wish, like I, I do have like over a decade of experience in marketing and depending on any which way you look at it sometimes they wish, sometimes they, it doesn't feel like that.

[00:31:11] Like there are times in which like there were roles that I was in for longer than I should have. Like I should have, I was at Fitbit for like over four years. I should have left after two. And it's not a knock on the company or anything like that. It was just more of I think.

[00:31:28] I set out to do what I really wanted to do, what I cared about within about roughly two years. And I should have used the opportunity to just try a new place, like just try a new startup. It's I also don't regret. anything at the same time. So I also shrug if I could go back in time, I would, or tell my younger self, I would say try more things.

[00:31:54] Fail more, and fail more, and ways you can pick yourself back up again pretty easily. And then just get more experience. 

[00:32:00] Ramli John: Anything you would feel more like trying out things on the side or being more risky with the campaigns that you run. Is there anything specific that you would give yourself advice around like that, that "feeling more" piece?

[00:32:14] Amanda Natividad: I do wish that I did more side hustle. I've had a couple of pet blogs here and there, but they were, there were no goals. Like they were pretty aimless. Like I actually do wish that I focus on like an SEO blog. Like I, I wish that I like chose a topic and it didn't need to be one that I was passionate about, but just one that if I had some conviction that, oh, I bet I could rank pretty high in search with this, right?

[00:32:39] If I just focus on this for a couple months. But wish I did something like that. I've done some of that stuff more recently, the re recent couple years. But I'm also in a different time in my life now where I have a family. I don't have as much free time as I used to. So there's a little bit of that feeling of I, I.

[00:32:58] Had a lot of fun living in San Francisco in my twenties, and I really loved it there. got to make lots of friends and network and everything. I do wish that I carved out a little more time for the side hustle stuff. 

[00:33:11] Ramli John: I wanna go back to what you, a you mentioned around make like you wish you, you moved on to other roles sooner.

[00:33:19] You you mentioned that you've accomplished all you can within that within that two years. I do feel like that advice could really apply to a lot of marketers. They might stay on to a role a little longer than they, they want to just because it feels safe. And often in other companies, marketers are the ones that are abused or the ones that are like cha chased down.

[00:33:42] Is there anything, any other advice you would give around people who it's time to move on? For me I would be, I would say, You've learned that all you can in that role and it's time to move on. Is there any other signals to you, particularly for yourself, that you're you, it's a flag for you to start looking for something new as an opportunity.

[00:34:03] Amanda Natividad: I appreciate what you've said about when people like, feel safe and they don't really wanna leave. I think that was what kept me at Fitbit. I would for longer than I maybe in hindsight wanted to have stayed, is there was some comfort in there, right? It was like, oh, look, Fitbit's still a cool brand.

[00:34:20] I know what's expected of me and my job. Like I, I know what to do to get the things done. And I was also at a stage where I was planning having a family. So I was also like, I need to be in a pretty safe environment, right? Where I know everybody and like they know me and I can take some time off for my parental leave and not feel scared about it, so that's why I also say I don't regret it but maybe it's more if you find yourself in that similar position where you might be staying in a role because you feel like it's the safer choice, maybe think about I'm going to say this in a more like positive way or constructive way, which is that's okay.

[00:34:59] That's okay. Maybe it's okay. That's sure. you need that safety, think about how it's serving you and why it's serving you in the way that it is. If in my case it was I needed to be in a safe space so that I could figure out a next stage in a different area of my life, that was absolutely worth it.

[00:35:17] If you find that maybe you're stuck in the safe zone because you're just afraid of change and you just don't wanna do it. . Deep down inside, you do wanna do it, or you're like, I wanna change. , but I also don't wanna do it cuz it's scary. Then I would challenge you and say you should try to push yourself and go for the change.

[00:35:37] But I would just maybe wrap that up with, if you're finding that you're taking comfort in that safety, that doesn't have to mean that's a bad thing. Just be mindful about how you're using that and if it's serving you. 

[00:35:50] Ramli John: Whenever I chat with Amanda, I learn something new. She's one of the most generous, kind and Wly smart marketer I know.

[00:35:56] Highly recommend you subscribe to. Newsletter the menu by going to amanda nat.com to also check out SparkToro at SparkToro.com and follow Amanda on LinkedIn and Twitter. Twitter our handle @AmandaNat . You can find those links in the show notes and description. Thanks to Amanda for being on the show. If you enjoy this episode, you'd love the Marketing Powerups newsletter.

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[00:36:57] It's all for now. Have a powered-up day! 

[00:37:01] Amanda Natividad: Marketing Powerups. Until the next episode