Becky Pierson Davidson's community retention playbook

[00:00:00] Improving Customer Retention in Community Driven Products with Becky Pierson Davidson

[00:00:00] Ramli John: Retention is key to unlocking growth that applies if you're a software ecommerce or community company. 

[00:00:05] Ramli John: If you can't keep customers long term, you'll struggle to build a sustainable business. 

[00:00:10] Ramli John: It's why Becky Pearson Davidson has focused on helping community driven products keep customers happy and sticking around longer. 

[00:00:17] Ramli John: At boss babe, she reduced the refund request for their course products by up to 6% by improving the community onboarding experience. 

[00:00:25] Ramli John: In this marketing props episode, you learn first, how to avoid overwhelming new community members with too much information. 

[00:00:30] Ramli John: Second, how to craft a welcoming and inspiring community onboarding experience. 

[00:00:34] Ramli John: Third, how to identify and fix retention issues in your customer journey. 

[00:00:38] Ramli John: And number four, how she was able to level up her career by joining a community. 

[00:00:43] Ramli John: Before we get started, I created a free power ups cheat sheet that you can download for free to apply Becky's community onboarding blueprint. 

[00:00:50] Ramli John: You can find that@marketingpops.com right now or in the show notes and description below. 

[00:00:54] Ramli John: You ready? 

[00:00:55] Ramli John: Let's go.

[00:00:56] The Importance of Knowing Your Core Customer for a Successful Community Membership

[00:00:56] Ramli John: Marketing power ups ready? 

[00:01:01] Ramli John: Go. 

[00:01:04] Ramli John: Here's your host. 

[00:01:06] Ramli John: Ramli. 

[00:01:07] Ramli John: John. 

[00:01:08] Ramli John: Thank you for jumping on. 

[00:01:09] Ramli John: I know we're going to be talking about community and how to drive a community that leads to retention. 

[00:01:16] Ramli John: One of the things that I want to start off with is with a story now in your newsletter, which I'm going to plug into the description and show notes. 

[00:01:24] Ramli John: Make sure people subscribe because I'm a subscriber. 

[00:01:26] Ramli John: Great newsletter. 

[00:01:28] Ramli John: One of the things that you talked about is around this experiment with boss Babe where it seemed like at first it was a success, but looking longer term, it actually increased churn overall. 

[00:01:41] Ramli John: Can you first of all share boss babe for people who are not familiar with their community? 

[00:01:45] Ramli John: Empowering women? 

[00:01:47] Ramli John: What was that story and how did that happen? 

[00:01:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, so boss babe has a membership product where they support thousands of female founders and entrepreneurs in building their businesses from ground zero. 

[00:02:03] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, I don't even have an idea. 

[00:02:04] Becky Pierson Davidson: All the way through beta launch, we have people that come to our sitting calls that are having like 1020 30K months doing really one business. 

[00:02:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: So this is like an established community. 

[00:02:17] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I came in as head of product year previous to this time. 

[00:02:21] Becky Pierson Davidson: And when in q one this year, I was focused on how do we increase our growth on the product side, so how can we get our community members? 

[00:02:33] Becky Pierson Davidson: Help us grow the community by word of mouth, like sharing the product, inviting their friends to come in and join the membership. 

[00:02:43] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so I came with an idea with my team. 

[00:02:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was definitely a team effort, but it worked and didn't work. 

[00:02:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: So what we did was we had a monthly workshop that we were going to host and we thought, okay, let's allow our members to invite their friends to come to this workshop. 

[00:03:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: And this is like one of the main benefits. 

[00:03:04] Becky Pierson Davidson: A membership is either get a master class or a workshop every month. 

[00:03:08] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so this is a big deal to open it up to people that come for free because it's like the main benefit of being a member. 

[00:03:15] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so we're like, hey, you can invite friends because we were going to do a vision boarding workshop which is a little bit more accessible to people that aren't necessarily deep in their business journey yet, or even ready to start a business. 

[00:03:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: But for the wider boss babe audience, which for context, they have like three and a half million followers on Instagram, more people are going to resonate with this product anyway. 

[00:03:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: We allowed our members to their friends, but that didn't really work. 

[00:03:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: We got maybe 50 sign ups that way and people showed up, but it didn't really convert into sale in the end. 

[00:03:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: So they came, they had a great time, got really awesome feedback from that session, which I know from serving the people that were in attendance and then just general attendance numbers were crazy high and lots of good comment and feedback in the community forum afterwards. 

[00:04:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: But what did work really well is that we promoted this event publicly too, for sale. 

[00:04:15] Becky Pierson Davidson: So we were like, hey, if you join our membership this month, you get to end this workshop. 

[00:04:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: But it's a recurring membership. 

[00:04:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was coming back every month. 

[00:04:22] Becky Pierson Davidson: But the problem is that and that worked really well, we had over 200 new members that month, which is a really high new member month for us. 

[00:04:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it was all based on Evergreen, really, because we put out a league, Magnet, then sold them through some sales sequence in their inbox and so came for that event. 

[00:04:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: They joined, but then most of them churned the next month or the month after. 

[00:04:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: And the problem is that we promoted this tangent event. 

[00:04:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was about manifestation, vision boarding, setting your intention for the year. 

[00:05:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: It wasn't about building a business, even though those things can help you with building your business. 

[00:05:05] Becky Pierson Davidson: That's why we were doing it. 

[00:05:06] Becky Pierson Davidson: But it wasn't like core foundational to what the membership offered. 

[00:05:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: So when the next months came and we didn't have Manifestation content, it was actually more like, okay, let's put that vision into practice and create a roadmap plan. 

[00:05:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that just didn't set well. 

[00:05:24] Becky Pierson Davidson: People were interested in the events in the same way they were with the previous one, though. 

[00:05:28] Becky Pierson Davidson: And the reason I think that the referral strategy at work, which was my initial attention, was because our members knew that a membership wasn't for their friends. 

[00:05:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: They're like, oh, that's not something like, yeah, they might like that, or you should come to this, don't join. 

[00:05:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: Right. 

[00:05:42] Ramli John: I guess going back to what you mentioned, it's all about deeply understanding your call concept. 

[00:05:47] Ramli John: I know before we were recording you're talking about you delighted the members, but they realized that was like a one time that manifestation workshop and that kind of set the tone for what the expectation is going forward. 

[00:06:02] Ramli John: Is that a fair read there where their expectation was not met because they expected that manifestation workshop to continue going forward? 

[00:06:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think so. 

[00:06:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think when you bring people into a membership new customer acquisition based on an event that's happening or a certain piece of content, you have to keep presenting some kind of continuity there. 

[00:06:23] Becky Pierson Davidson: So what is the next stage from doing vision boarding but with manifestation baked? 

[00:06:31] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so I think we missed the mark in our following content following months, because we went from that to a deep systems implementation. 

[00:06:40] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, we did a Notion Masterclass after that, which was awesome, and our members loved it, that were long time members, but the people that had joined in January, they were like, whoa, that's like intense for me. 

[00:06:53] Ramli John: I like that, that's notion. 

[00:06:55] Ramli John: Yeah, you're right. 

[00:06:56] Ramli John: I think it might be like a few steps ahead where a system getting systems set up more. 

[00:07:01] Ramli John: So the people who join because of that manifestation workshop might be earlier in their journey towards whatever they're working on rather than most of the regular members. 

[00:07:16] Ramli John: Which I guess kind of leads to what we wanted to talk about.

[00:07:19] Reducing Refund Requests at Boss Babe: An Interview with Becky Pierson Davidson

[00:07:19] Ramli John: What you wanted to talk about, which is around Onboarding customers. 

[00:07:22] Ramli John: I know that I wrote a book more specifically around user onboarding for users, but I'm not sure would you say let's talk about Onboarding for community. 

[00:07:32] Ramli John: Because of your work, you were able to reduce the refund request at Boss Babe by 6%, and I think that's way below the industry standard. 

[00:07:44] Ramli John: So can you talk about what first of all, Boss Babes Onboarding before you came in and started? 

[00:07:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: Okay, so this one is specific to a Course. 

[00:07:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: So we had a Course product. 

[00:07:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: Now it have a community. 

[00:07:59] Becky Pierson Davidson: So it came with an online forum, a community aspect, and coaching. 

[00:08:06] Becky Pierson Davidson: But the course itself is what they were purchasing. 

[00:08:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was like the flagship offer and it was super high ticket. 

[00:08:13] Becky Pierson Davidson: Super high ticket. 

[00:08:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: So the refund rate was significant. 

[00:08:16] Becky Pierson Davidson: We were talking about by reducing it that much, you're saving six figures. 

[00:08:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's exponential. 

[00:08:22] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so what happened is that when somebody joins this is 100 module course. 

[00:08:29] Ramli John: Wow. 

[00:08:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: Massive. 

[00:08:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: We're helping people build businesses on social media. 

[00:08:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: We had one member recently went to 100K followers. 

[00:08:39] Ramli John: Wow. 

[00:08:39] Becky Pierson Davidson: Really quickly. 

[00:08:40] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so it's designed to be a twelve week program, but really it's a community of practice. 

[00:08:47] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's something you have to do over time, like twelve weeks to go through all the content is realistic, but it takes time to practice and build that out. 

[00:08:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: So anyway, that sounds overwhelming, probably, right? 

[00:09:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: So if you purchase this course and you join and then you're like, holy moly, this is a lot. 

[00:09:07] Becky Pierson Davidson: This is a lot. 

[00:09:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: And of course we're sending emails. 

[00:09:10] Ramli John: It does. 

[00:09:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: You've got this. 

[00:09:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: We're so glad you're here. 

[00:09:13] Becky Pierson Davidson: Here's your first step. 

[00:09:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: Here's your next step. 

[00:09:16] Becky Pierson Davidson: Watch the first module and we have lots of introduction modules and we're like, go introduce yourself in the community. 

[00:09:23] Becky Pierson Davidson: But actually, from your book I was reading about coming up with AHA moment. 

[00:09:29] Becky Pierson Davidson: How quickly can we get to an AHA moment? 

[00:09:32] Becky Pierson Davidson: And when we talk to customers and look at the drop off, I start to understand, okay, people are overwhelmed and they think, I can't do this. 

[00:09:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: I'm not capable of doing this. 

[00:09:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: This is awesome. 

[00:09:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: But this is not for me because I can't do that, right? 

[00:09:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: Because it's like a mindset book and we have lots of mindset content early in the product for this reason. 

[00:09:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I think our reason rate would be higher if we didn't. 

[00:09:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: But what we're missing was the personal connection. 

[00:10:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so what we did was before you get the first email, that's like, hey, come to your first coaching call. 

[00:10:08] Becky Pierson Davidson: We sent an email before that that's like, hey, come to your orientation. 

[00:10:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so we basically added a weekly orientation call that every purchase this course ran evergreen. 

[00:10:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: So every new purchaser that would show up at the live orientation call, which wasn't even with any of the course professors, that's what we called them. 

[00:10:27] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was with our community manager. 

[00:10:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so all she does walk them through here's where this is, here's where that is, here's where this is. 

[00:10:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: What questions do you have? 

[00:10:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: Here's how you update your notifications. 

[00:10:38] Becky Pierson Davidson: Here's what you should do first, which all kind of seems self explanatory, but just having her go through it and answer their questions, they feel heard. 

[00:10:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then the second half of the call is the valuable part, where they all share why they joined and get to know each other. 

[00:10:53] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so you're almost like making a mini cohort of people. 

[00:10:57] Becky Pierson Davidson: And as soon as we started doing those calls, we saw a reduction in refunds by 6%. 

[00:11:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: I will say that's the only factor. 

[00:11:04] Becky Pierson Davidson: So let me add one more thing. 

[00:11:06] Becky Pierson Davidson: We did that and I removed the drip. 

[00:11:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that might have had a huge impact, too. 

[00:11:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: I don't know how to attribute which had more impact, but I really lean into the orientation calls because that's my hypothesis. 

[00:11:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: But we also moved to the drip. 

[00:11:22] Becky Pierson Davidson: So we had basically the way that course was set up was it was broken up into years, like freshman year, sophomore year, and junior year. 

[00:11:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: So we would drop all the freshman year content, but we gated the sophomore year content until after a month and I removed that. 

[00:11:39] Becky Pierson Davidson: So that also probably had a huge impact. 

[00:11:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I don't know how to see what difference was.

[00:11:44] Ramli John Interview with Becky Pierson Davidson: A Talk on B2B SaaS Companies and Revenue Engines

[00:11:44] Ramli John: But before I continue, I want to thank the sponsor for this episode, 42 Agency. 

[00:11:48] Ramli John: Now, when you're in scale up growth mode and you have to hit your KPIs, the pressure is on to deliver demos and sign ups. 

[00:11:55] Ramli John: And it's a lot to handle. 

[00:11:56] Ramli John: There's demand gen, email sequences, rev ops and more. 

[00:12:00] Ramli John: And that's where 42 Agency, founded by my good friend Camille Rexton can help you. 

[00:12:04] Ramli John: They're a strategic partner that's helped b two B SaaS companies like Profit To, Wall, Teamwork, Sprout, Social and Hubdoc to build a predictable revenue engine. 

[00:12:13] Ramli John: If you're looking for performance experts and creatives to solve your marketing growth problems today and help you build the foundations for the future, look no further. 

[00:12:22] Ramli John: Visit 42 Agency.com to talk to a strategist right now to learn how you can build a high efficiency revenue engine.

[00:12:29] Ramli John discusses Riverside FM and its features on a podcast

[00:12:29] Ramli John: Thank you. 

[00:12:30] Ramli John: Also to sponsor for this episode, Riverside FM. 

[00:12:33] Ramli John: Riverside FM is my Goto video podcast recording tool. 

[00:12:36] Ramli John: This whole show is recorded on it. 

[00:12:38] Ramli John: What I love about it is that it's almost like being in a virtual studio, which makes it possible to record and edit at the highest quality possible. 

[00:12:46] Ramli John: Riverside FM also records locally for myself and my guests, so if anyone has unstable internet connection, I can still get studio quality audio and video recording. 

[00:12:56] Ramli John: And now with their AI engine, I can accurately transcribe my recordings as well as get vertical videos for Instagram, Reels, TikTok and YouTube shorts automatically using the new feature called Magic Clips. 

[00:13:07] Ramli John: Don't take my word for it. 

[00:13:08] Ramli John: You can go to Riverside FM right now to try out for free or find the link in the show note and description.

[00:13:14] Building Cohort-specific Community for Customer Retention

[00:13:14] Ramli John: Anyway, let's get back to our episode. 

[00:13:16] Ramli John: I think there's three things that I really found impactful that I think you mentioned the word they feel heard. 

[00:13:23] Ramli John: I think just being heard is far enough to them to build that emotional connection rather than often the purchase experience is very impersonal a little bit. 

[00:13:36] Ramli John: I'm sure there's video content, but to be in a call with even the community manager could be very impactful. 

[00:13:43] Ramli John: And I think being heard is often especially early on, where they're like, where do I start and answering a bunch of questions. 

[00:13:51] Ramli John: Would you say that was very impactful that they were heard? 

[00:13:56] Ramli John: If they have any questions, they got answered right away. 

[00:13:59] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think they felt heard in like they could ask questions, but most importantly, they felt heard by their fellow classmates and understood that they were not alone in this journey. 

[00:14:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: And all of them, I mean, I went to plenty of these calls or listened back to the recordings and all of them expressed being nervous, excited, but also really scared that this was a big investment and a big decision. 

[00:14:25] Becky Pierson Davidson: And they're not only investing their money or investing their time and this specific course content is like we make you put your face on Instagram every day. 

[00:14:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: That is hard. 

[00:14:37] Becky Pierson Davidson: I am currently trying to do that, and that is hard. 

[00:14:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: You're in the same stage as the other people that are starting at the same time as you and just really making them feel like not alone. 

[00:14:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: And there are people that are the same, they're on the same with them. 

[00:14:52] Ramli John: It's about reducing that doubt where I am putting myself out there and because there's people around me who are also doing it. 

[00:15:01] Ramli John: It's almost like a Peloton workout. 

[00:15:05] Ramli John: I'm not sure I'm trying to connect it to a CrossFit gym where it is hard to do one of those CrossFit workouts. 

[00:15:13] Ramli John: But if you do it together, it feels like, hey, it doesn't seem as hard if I'm doing it with a few other folks together. 

[00:15:21] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, it's funny you bring up Peloton because I think I talk about that on every interview. 

[00:15:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: And in my last few cohorts of teaching UX Design, all my students make fun of me for how many references I do Peloton, but they do community really well. 

[00:15:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like the leaderboard, the way you can connect with your friends and the way you can encourage your friends and keep them accountable. 

[00:15:43] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's accountability is what it is. 

[00:15:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: And when you start on some new transformational journey, which is often community product is serving, that's scary. 

[00:15:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: And you need a cohort of people to do that with. 

[00:15:54] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's why universities are the way to you're there for the actions and relationship building. 

[00:16:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it's a lot more than going. 

[00:16:02] Ramli John: I like that example with Pelton. 

[00:16:04] Ramli John: You're right. 

[00:16:04] Ramli John: I think being together, do you try to get those cohort? 

[00:16:09] Ramli John: I mean, that group of people who are in the rotation together? 

[00:16:13] Ramli John: Or does it become almost like organic where, oh, you're in the same orientation as me. 

[00:16:18] Ramli John: Let's stay in touch, I guess, through a group chat that they have on the side? 

[00:16:24] Ramli John: Or do you just let them do their thing as a quote unquote cohort that joined that orientation together? 

[00:16:32] Becky Pierson Davidson: We did let them do their thing. 

[00:16:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: We let them share their handles because they wanted to connect on Instagram because that's where they're building for the most part. 

[00:16:40] Becky Pierson Davidson: But I do think we missed an opportunity there because we were using Circle for the community portion and at the time they had the Group DM feature. 

[00:16:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I think if they had joined that orientation call, it would have been great to automate a Group DM with that same group. 

[00:16:57] Becky Pierson Davidson: But that's not something we were able to prioritize in the roadmap. 

[00:17:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: But I think it would have been smart. 

[00:17:01] Ramli John: No, I think that's super important. 

[00:17:04] Ramli John: You share each other's handles so that sometimes it feels encouraging when you're posting something up there and people are actually commenting on your post rather than you're out in the wild. 

[00:17:18] Ramli John: And having that group of people who were like, that person wasn't my orientation. 

[00:17:23] Ramli John: I'm going to like whatever they post up and leave a community because I know that that will help them. 

[00:17:28] Ramli John: You talked about accountability, that it will help them push a little bit further throughout this course. 

[00:17:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:17:35] Becky Pierson Davidson: Did you ever hear of Ship 30 for 30? 

[00:17:38] Ramli John: I did, yes. 

[00:17:39] Ramli John: I did not join, but I've seen a lot of people with the ship symbol on their handle. 

[00:17:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, the ship handle. 

[00:17:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think they did a really good job with the social icon of that creating community, but in a public space, in the sense that if you saw the ship icon and somebody else's or emoji on somebody else's handle and you saw them tweet and you're more likely to engage in that tweet like, I see you. 

[00:18:05] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I'm also on this journey of tweeting into the void. 

[00:18:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: And thank you for liking my post because I feel seen today, right? 

[00:18:14] Ramli John: Yeah, they feel seen, they feel heard. 

[00:18:16] Ramli John: I feel like they're feeling connected with this community. 

[00:18:20] Ramli John: And as because of that, them getting a refund, them leaving that space, they're not just leaving the course, they're actually leaving their friends. 

[00:18:30] Ramli John: They're leaving people who were engaging with them. 

[00:18:34] Ramli John: And it's a little bit of social pressure, but it works. 

[00:18:37] Ramli John: I think it works because it's harder to leave friends than it is to leave a product or a course.

[00:18:44] Becky Pierson Davidson Discusses Customer Journey Mapping in Emotional Terms

[00:18:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: In my work, one of the tools I use is that I like to create a customer journey map. 

[00:18:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: And when I say journey map, I really mean like, yeah, you can write down every single step that they go through, but I mean track that against their emotional journey because though the opportunities where you can increase retention and reduce refunds and serve them with digital products, that can help your ascension model as well. 

[00:19:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: Because it's like if you know where they're going to hit an emotional dip, that's where you need to come in and support them. 

[00:19:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so that's my first step with my clients is let's make your customer journey map and figure out where all the places where somebody loses faith in themselves that you can lift them. 

[00:19:32] Ramli John: Super interesting. 

[00:19:34] Ramli John: Maybe can you walk through? 

[00:19:38] Ramli John: Is it just based on I'm guessing based on I know you're a big proponent of user interviews. 

[00:19:42] Ramli John: I saw one of your newsletter posts about that. 

[00:19:45] Ramli John: Is that based on those interviews or based on how do you map out those emotional gaps? 

[00:19:51] Ramli John: And then I guess a follow up. 

[00:19:52] Ramli John: So I don't forget you mentioned ascension, customer ascension. 

[00:19:55] Ramli John: Because I want to get to that a little bit later because that's a super important concept.

[00:20:00] Understanding Customer Ascension with Becky Pierson Davidson

[00:20:00] Ramli John: Let's talk about the emotional journey map for us, I guess, how can people put that together? 

[00:20:05] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, the more data, the better. 

[00:20:08] Becky Pierson Davidson: But I think the most important thing is to have both qualitative and quantitative data. 

[00:20:13] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so customer interviews, that's going to give you qualitative data because if I ask you a question with multiple choices, you can give me an answer and that information is valuable, but I can't say why. 

[00:20:27] Becky Pierson Davidson: I can't get a deeper understanding of exactly why you answered that way and maybe what the root cause of that is. 

[00:20:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: You just can't get to that root cause until you why like five tied, I think, is that he talks about typewise. 

[00:20:40] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so interviews are super important and everybody thinks like, oh, I don't time for interviews. 

[00:20:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: You only need to do five to start seeing trends and understanding a problem deeper, especially within the same customer segment. 

[00:20:53] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so interviews are a must. 

[00:20:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then I also like to supplement that with product data if possible. 

[00:21:01] Becky Pierson Davidson: Where are people dropping off? 

[00:21:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: Let's say we're talking about a course. 

[00:21:03] Becky Pierson Davidson: Are they dropping off after vo two for module two? 

[00:21:07] Becky Pierson Davidson: That's important to know because then we need to come up with some hypotheses. 

[00:21:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so by looking at that data first, actually that's great to do because then you're coming up with hypotheses. 

[00:21:19] Becky Pierson Davidson: It helps you form some of the questions you want to ask that you can maybe run a survey for some of the more like numbers based questions that gives you quantity data. 

[00:21:27] Becky Pierson Davidson: Or you can run your customer interviews and start to understand maybe what there is drop off or what's blocking people, what might they understand. 

[00:21:38] Becky Pierson Davidson: All that information is really like data collection. 

[00:21:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then after that you're taking a look at all the results and the customer dream up is actually an artifact of all the research that you've done that makes sense. 

[00:21:51] Ramli John: You're really trying to figure out where the drop offs are. 

[00:21:55] Ramli John: And based on that, trying to understand the hypothesis of why that's happening, the emotional component to that, maybe it could be like a self doubt. 

[00:22:05] Ramli John: It could be more of a struggle with the content itself. 

[00:22:08] Ramli John: So really try to figure out where the dips are at as far as the highest. 

[00:22:13] Ramli John: I guess moments of celebration could be part of that emotional journey. 

[00:22:18] Ramli John: Map yeah, you say. 

[00:22:19] Becky Pierson Davidson: One of the things I did that same course at Boss Babe was my team. 

[00:22:23] Becky Pierson Davidson: We pulled a report of every single video over the past couple of we had like thousands of responses, like how people go through the course. 

[00:22:33] Becky Pierson Davidson: And we looked at a number of things like what were the most popular videos in the sense that they were completed. 

[00:22:40] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, they watched the whole thing through which videos are people dropping off of? 

[00:22:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then we looked at the trends. 

[00:22:47] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, we had four professors in this course, so who was the we called them professors. 

[00:22:53] Becky Pierson Davidson: Who was a professor? 

[00:22:54] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, was there a most popular professor? 

[00:22:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: Was there something about the title? 

[00:22:59] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so there was specific theme that had a lot of the videos that had high watches and that showed us like, oh, maybe we have an opportunity to make a micro product here. 

[00:23:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: And if you want to talk about Ascension, let's say in that course there's 100 modules. 

[00:23:15] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like the most robust, high ticket thing, but some people might not be ready for all of that. 

[00:23:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: And the people that complete every single module and get to the level of actually business building that's in that course is fewer than the people that get through some of this core content in the first couple of years. 

[00:23:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so there was a civic topic that really showed as an opportunity to maybe highlight more with another product earlier in the journey. 

[00:23:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so, again, let's go back to our new map where we see people potentially dropping off because they're totally overwhelmed. 

[00:23:49] Becky Pierson Davidson: They're like this a lot. 

[00:23:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: Me, I'm not sure I'm ready for this. 

[00:23:53] Becky Pierson Davidson: Well, how do we maybe serve some of those people that really that's true. 

[00:23:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: And we pull it back and we're like, hey, earlier in the journey, maybe there's actually a lower ticket product that would support them and help them get the next stage so that they're eventually ready to buy this. 

[00:24:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: So I think whatever product somebody has, you want to look at what's working really well, what's not working so well, what opportunities are there for us to add an additional product or just improve that one? 

[00:24:21] Becky Pierson Davidson: But sometimes there's opportunity for an additional product that's either earlier in the journey, like as an add on, or that comes later, because if people are completing everything, they're moving through the course, or they use every single feature available to them, they're going to graduate. 

[00:24:37] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so when they graduate out, wouldn't you rather them stay with you, if possible, than that opportunity to create an ascension product? 

[00:24:46] Ramli John: And that makes sense too, in a sense that I think helping people ascend and I imagine it's like walking up steps. 

[00:24:57] Ramli John: If the steps are too big, they look at that and I would be like, I'm done, I'm out. 

[00:25:03] Ramli John: If the steps are manageable all the way to the top, it would be easier for a person to start off with the smaller step first and at a lower price point rather than committing at the very top right away. 

[00:25:21] Ramli John: Would you agree to that? 

[00:25:22] Ramli John: Is that something that could work align with this? 

[00:25:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, I agree with that. 

[00:25:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think that it's important that whatever product, even if it's lower or sooner in the customer journey, it still has to be like, wow, transformation. 

[00:25:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: Even if it's a smaller concept, because that's what drives that word of mouth growth and get them the extreme trust to buy from you again. 

[00:25:50] Ramli John: That makes sense. 

[00:25:51] Ramli John: I think that really is about you mentioned that, yeah, get them to buy from you again is super important. 

[00:25:59] Ramli John: I forgot who said it like a buyer is a buyer. 

[00:26:01] Ramli John: Or if somebody buys from you once, they're more likely to buy from you again just because they've already given you their credit card information than somebody who has to still build up that trust along the way. 

[00:26:15] Becky Pierson Davidson: Essentially, yeah. 

[00:26:16] Becky Pierson Davidson: And if they're not, then it's time to look at your product and is there something you could improve about it? 

[00:26:22] Becky Pierson Davidson: Are refund requests high? 

[00:26:24] Becky Pierson Davidson: Is there a bad drop off? 

[00:26:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: Do they unsubscribe from your list after they bought something that's the stuff that you're like, oh, I'm getting sales at school. 

[00:26:33] Becky Pierson Davidson: Well, it's important to dig into is this product performing really well because you want it to lead to an increased lifetime customer journey? 

[00:26:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: That's the thing that is more important and improving that product, there's always room for improvement. 

[00:26:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so I think that's really what I'm trying to get. 

[00:26:54] Ramli John: I guess, like, playing on Marketing Pops video game analogy is like helping people level up different stages. 

[00:27:03] Ramli John: The first product is like level one, okay, this is your problem. 

[00:27:07] Ramli John: Then the next product is level two, and then level three, and you're kind of staging it out so that people don't start off at hard mode right away and give up rather than starting off with something that is more manageable, maybe at the beginning rather than something harder at the end. 

[00:27:24] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, it's like Peloton. 

[00:27:25] Becky Pierson Davidson: Can't jump into the advanced class. 

[00:27:27] Becky Pierson Davidson: You got to start in the beginner class. 

[00:27:28] Ramli John: That is so good. 

[00:27:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: Peloton. 

[00:27:30] Ramli John: Does a good job of gamifying. 

[00:27:33] Ramli John: And I guess talking about ascension, we've talked about business side of ascension, but there's also a user side ascension where you're talking about it. 

[00:27:44] Ramli John: Peloton. 

[00:27:44] Ramli John: They're not going to give you the hard mode because you'll wake up in the morning, the next morning and your whole body sore. 

[00:27:51] Ramli John: You're like, I never want to do that again. 

[00:27:54] Ramli John: Rather than maybe build them up to the hardest, I guess, classes. 

[00:28:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:28:01] Becky Pierson Davidson: You kind of choose your own adventure a little bit with them, which is interesting because I think somebody can also play it small, too. 

[00:28:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's an interesting problem to solve. 

[00:28:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, how do you recognize when your customers, subscribers, community are playing it small and encourage them to take it to the next level? 

[00:28:23] Becky Pierson Davidson: And finding that right way to promote that is an interesting thing to think about. 

[00:28:29] Becky Pierson Davidson: For example, with Boss Babe's Community, they do a monthly setting call. 

[00:28:35] Becky Pierson Davidson: While I was there, I was running that call, and people would write in what their goals were for the month and call people out. 

[00:28:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: That's all. 

[00:28:43] Becky Pierson Davidson: You can step it up. 

[00:28:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: I saw the same goal. 

[00:28:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: If you're setting the same goals every month for the six months, you're not going to be leveling up.

[00:28:52] Product Standpoints and Encouraging Progression at the Right Time

[00:28:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so it's interesting to think about a product standpoint that's cool. 

[00:28:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: How do you encourage that level up at the right time? 

[00:28:59] Becky Pierson Davidson: I need it. 

[00:29:00] Ramli John: I like that. 

[00:29:01] Ramli John: I think it goes back to the whole accountability. 

[00:29:03] Ramli John: Like, there's accountability with your cohort. 

[00:29:05] Ramli John: There's also accountability from quote unquote coaches, people who are much more ahead. 

[00:29:12] Ramli John: And I guess, like, figuring out when to push them is super important.

[00:29:16] Discussing the role of consistency, expectation and identity in retention with Creative Mornings

[00:29:16] Ramli John: I also want to talk a little bit about something you wrote in your newsletter around Creative Mornings. 

[00:29:23] Ramli John: How first of all, congrats. 

[00:29:25] Ramli John: You've been there for ten years, which is crazy, and you volunteered, like, I think only a few months ago as one of the volunteers. 

[00:29:31] Ramli John: I feel like there's something there with brand experiences and retention. 

[00:29:35] Ramli John: Can you talk a little bit about that? 

[00:29:38] Ramli John: First of all, let's talk about Creative Morning, like ten years. 

[00:29:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: Well, I saw the founder, Tina Roth Iberg. 

[00:29:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: She came to speak at Pratt, which is where. 

[00:29:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: I went to college. 

[00:29:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then I started being really into it, following it, going to their events when I was in New York. 

[00:29:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then it's kind of cool because so they have over 200 chapters worldwide now, but at the time they were just getting started and I remember going like, whenever I moved to a new city, because I moved around a lot. 

[00:30:07] Becky Pierson Davidson: When I first graduated college, I moved to San Francisco and then to Denver, and then now I know I'm back in Maryland. 

[00:30:13] Becky Pierson Davidson: And every time I move, I would go to Creative Mornings events because it's the same everywhere. 

[00:30:23] Becky Pierson Davidson: They do a really good job of creating a local chapter of a very strong community. 

[00:30:28] Becky Pierson Davidson: And there's a bunch of factors I can go over of why I think that's so consistent. 

[00:30:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: But at the end of the day, their core product, their core offer is consistent and it's releasable. 

[00:30:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: So basically every month on a Friday in any given chapter, they have a breakfast and a talk by somebody in the local creative community. 

[00:30:57] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's all it is. 

[00:30:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like breakfast connection and a talk. 

[00:31:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it's from 830 to ten on a Friday, once a month, no matter where you're at in any of the chapters. 

[00:31:07] Becky Pierson Davidson: But there's a global theme, so there's one little thread, like, connecting all of them. 

[00:31:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think the theme for this upcoming month is Pride. 

[00:31:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so whatever the theme is, they find people to speak on that theme, but something having to do with their creative career or creative work. 

[00:31:28] Becky Pierson Davidson: So it's just inspiring, right? 

[00:31:29] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, you come together to meet other people that are into the same things that you're into, you have shared interests, which is definition of a community, and then you are able to connect with people and leave inspired and with your cup full, right? 

[00:31:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like your coffee cup. 

[00:31:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so it's just a really clear premise, the whole concept. 

[00:31:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: So that's the core product. 

[00:31:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: And then they have this like you and I were talking before about core and adjacent or tangent content, and so that's their core offer, their core product. 

[00:32:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: Then they also do really fun surprise and delight things. 

[00:32:05] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like you said, I just started volunteering with the Baltimore chapter, and we offered during one month, they did headshots. 

[00:32:13] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, a few of the volunteers are photographers, and so they did headshots for anybody that was in attendance. 

[00:32:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: You got free headshots, which is super cool, especially in the creative community, as you know, as we know headshot, people know it everywhere. 

[00:32:25] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, yours has a yellow background and I positive. 

[00:32:28] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so, yeah, had a few people setting up. 

[00:32:31] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was super cool. 

[00:32:32] Becky Pierson Davidson: Three different photographers, took photos for everybody. 

[00:32:35] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so that really nice surprise and delight moment. 

[00:32:38] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it's not something if you're a member, you have to go every single month. 

[00:32:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, yeah, I've been going for ten years, but a couple of times a year maybe. 

[00:32:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: And some years I probably didn't go, but I think it just kind of is something you can always come back to and it's always the same and consistent. 

[00:32:55] Ramli John: Yeah. 

[00:32:55] Ramli John: What I'm really hearing here is you keep coming back because you know what to expect. 

[00:33:02] Ramli John: But there's also obviously delightful surprises, so to speak, rather than imagine going into one of those creative mornings, those breakfasts one day and it's totally different. 

[00:33:15] Ramli John: It's now like full on networking, different vibe. 

[00:33:21] Ramli John: And then in that sense, I guess that's when you're like, things have changed, expectations have changed, rather. 

[00:33:30] Ramli John: They're very consistent as to what they're offering. 

[00:33:33] Ramli John: And that simplicity kind of keeps people coming back, essentially. 

[00:33:38] Ramli John: And I'm trying to somehow tie this back to retention. 

[00:33:42] Ramli John: There is definitely something there where consistency and delivering on expectation can keep people from coming back over and over again, would you say? 

[00:33:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:33:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: The other important aspect is their values. 

[00:33:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: So every single session, every location starts with them reading their manifesto, which is like it starts with the sentence, everyone is creative and their values, they share every single event kind of get hammered into you and you identify with it. 

[00:34:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: You're like, I belong here. 

[00:34:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: So I think there's like an identity piece that's really important and that does lead to retention because when you feel identity with a community or product, whatever, it's hard to leave. 

[00:34:32] Becky Pierson Davidson: I mean, if we want to joke more about Peloton, try and take my Peloton from. 

[00:34:41] Ramli John: Way, I will fight you. 

[00:34:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: My husband was so mad recently. 

[00:34:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: It was like glitching badly. 

[00:34:45] Becky Pierson Davidson: He's like, why do we even have this thing? 

[00:34:47] Becky Pierson Davidson: Why do we pay for it? 

[00:34:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I'm like, come at me. 

[00:34:54] Becky Pierson Davidson: I'm like mates aren't internet. 

[00:34:55] Becky Pierson Davidson: You should go fix the bonus. 

[00:34:57] Ramli John: That's true. 

[00:34:59] Ramli John: It goes back to like, you're not leaving the product, you're not leaving the service. 

[00:35:04] Ramli John: You're actually leaving a part of your identity if you leave that behind. 

[00:35:12] Ramli John: Do you have a name like Peloton or something? 

[00:35:13] Ramli John: I'm not sure. 

[00:35:14] Ramli John: I find, like, that could be part of the identity where HubSpot has they call themselves you know, I'm curious if that ties into it, where you're actually giving a name to the community members. 

[00:35:31] Ramli John: Not just at the at the lab with Klaus. 

[00:35:36] Ramli John: It's I'm not sure if it costs of scientists, but there is something there. 

[00:35:42] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Becky Pierson Davidson: I don't know. 

[00:35:47] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think it is Peloton because I'm going to butcher this. 

[00:35:51] Becky Pierson Davidson: But the word actually means like a group of bikers. 

[00:35:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:35:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: And because in their classes they call you as like, okay, Peloton, let's keep going. 

[00:36:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: You know what mean? 

[00:36:02] Becky Pierson Davidson: So, like, I think that is the word. 

[00:36:04] Becky Pierson Davidson: They use their brand name, which is unique. 

[00:36:07] Becky Pierson Davidson: And let's use boss babe, for example. 

[00:36:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: That's the same thing. 

[00:36:11] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like we call them boss babe. 

[00:36:14] Becky Pierson Davidson: Like, hey, boss babe. 

[00:36:16] Becky Pierson Davidson: Boss babe. 

[00:36:17] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah, I don't know that's two examples of that. 

[00:36:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: But to your point, like Jay's community, he like, I noticed in the community bull. 

[00:36:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: Right? 

[00:36:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: Hey, lab mates. 

[00:36:27] Ramli John: I feel like catching there's definitely something there. 

[00:36:29] Ramli John: I think giving a name to a group of people like Peloton, say Peloton. 

[00:36:33] Ramli John: Now you relate to that. 

[00:36:35] Ramli John: Hey lab mates, it's harder for you to now you're going to be an ex lab mate. 

[00:36:40] Ramli John: Which now feels weird because there's an X at the beginning or on the X, something which I think you're right. 

[00:36:46] Ramli John: I think there is your identity, when you tie yourself to that, it becomes harder and harder for you to leave it behind, which I guess that's interesting.

[00:36:56] Discussion on the importance of company values

[00:36:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:36:56] Becky Pierson Davidson: And you can't have identity without values. 

[00:36:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: So I think it's really important to talk about values from the beginning and really make people understand this is what we're about. 

[00:37:09] Becky Pierson Davidson: And if you're a part of this, then this is what you're about. 

[00:37:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: And you see this with companies and their employers, employees like applications and stuff. 

[00:37:17] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like these are the things we value. 

[00:37:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: This our ethos. 

[00:37:19] Becky Pierson Davidson: Of course there's the problem that then they don't live up sometimes. 

[00:37:23] Ramli John: Most of the time there's the values. 

[00:37:25] Ramli John: I know. 

[00:37:25] Ramli John: I checked out your newsletter on this Bsvq. 

[00:37:29] Ramli John: You talked about simplicity, you talked about values.

[00:37:31] The Role of Visual Identity in Building Brand Recognition and Community

[00:37:31] Ramli John: I think the other side to that that is interesting is around the visual identity where I don't know if anybody's tattooed Peloton on their arm. 

[00:37:39] Ramli John: I know. 

[00:37:41] Ramli John: I'm not sure it's such a strong visual identity when you don't just relate to a bunny. 

[00:37:47] Ramli John: I'm sure somebody's tattooed HubSpot logo on their arm, but visual identity is part of that identity of you relating to that particular organization or group or people. 

[00:38:00] Becky Pierson Davidson: You definitely see that with sports and locations. 

[00:38:05] Becky Pierson Davidson: People from like wear Maryland flag, like socks and stuff. 

[00:38:10] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like a thing here. 

[00:38:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: And I also feel like living in Colorado, it was like that too. 

[00:38:16] Becky Pierson Davidson: You're very proud to be a Colorado person. 

[00:38:19] Becky Pierson Davidson: And there's like an identity that comes with that. 

[00:38:21] Becky Pierson Davidson: But anyway, I think locations and sports, you see that a lot. 

[00:38:24] Becky Pierson Davidson: And with Peloton I mean merch. 

[00:38:26] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think with companies like that, I for sure Peloton merch. 

[00:38:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think that's definitely a way to present with Creative Mornings, their visual identity. 

[00:38:38] Becky Pierson Davidson: They're in chapters all over the world, but when you see a Creative Mornings event, you know that it is Creative Mornings because of the colors. 

[00:38:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: The typeface is really unique. 

[00:38:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: Their visual identity in their graphics and their branding is so consistent and strong that, you know, it's subcommittee. 

[00:38:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's a chapter of this larger community. 

[00:39:00] Ramli John: Organization that makes sense. 

[00:39:02] Ramli John: I love that.

[00:39:03] Career Power Ups with Becky Pierson Davidson

[00:39:03] Ramli John: Well, I'm going to link all this newsletter articles that I mentioned in the show, notes in the description. 

[00:39:08] Ramli John: I want to shift gears and talk about career power ups. 

[00:39:11] Ramli John: I know you're now community driven product strategist. 

[00:39:16] Ramli John: You have experience leading product retention, user engagement, previously a boss baby. 

[00:39:20] Ramli John: You also have worked at agencies before. 

[00:39:23] Ramli John: I'm curious what's a power up that's helped you accelerate your career path of. 

[00:39:29] Becky Pierson Davidson: Relationship building is the most important thing that you can do. 

[00:39:34] Becky Pierson Davidson: I definitely would not have been able to start my business in the past few months if I hadn't had really incredible relationships with people. 

[00:39:43] Becky Pierson Davidson: So what I mean by that is I want to break that down a little bit more. 

[00:39:46] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like showing up as your true self and connecting with people in a meaningful way, and not just because to shoot the shit over the water cooler. 

[00:39:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: It goes beyond having a happy hour with somebody. 

[00:40:03] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think it's like really getting to know people and appreciating them for who they are and understanding their problems, their challenges, and helping them when they need help. 

[00:40:12] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so I've always been somebody that cares a lot about building strong relationships with the people that I work with and meet. 

[00:40:20] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's why community is so important to me. 

[00:40:22] Becky Pierson Davidson: It makes sense, I'm sure, but every single project I've landed in the past few months have been because either somebody referred me or I already knew the person and they were like, hey, I have this project. 

[00:40:35] Becky Pierson Davidson: Can you help? 

[00:40:35] Becky Pierson Davidson: Right? 

[00:40:36] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's made starting my business way easier than what I've seen in the market for other people. 

[00:40:44] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think I've been lucky because I do have that strong community of people that are supporting me, and I think it's very do good in the world, help people in the world, and then when you need help, they'll help you. 

[00:40:58] Becky Pierson Davidson: Yeah. 

[00:40:59] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that's why I love joining some of the communities that I've been, and we met through Jay's Community as a great think. 

[00:41:08] Becky Pierson Davidson: I think if you're looking to level up your career, then spend time getting to know people one on one and stay connected with them. 

[00:41:18] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it's not like, Can I get out of this conversation? 

[00:41:21] Becky Pierson Davidson: It's like, wow, I'm really excited to learn from this person and understand them because I'm going to learn stuff, and yeah, that's something I'm getting out of it, but maybe I'll help them too. 

[00:41:30] Becky Pierson Davidson: And that makes me happy, right, to help other people. 

[00:41:33] Becky Pierson Davidson: And so, yeah, I think just I don't understand when people are like, oh, I'm not a people person, or, I don't know, new friends. 

[00:41:41] Becky Pierson Davidson: And it's like, yeah, I mean, I only have plenty of people to be texting every single day, but there's always room. 

[00:41:48] Becky Pierson Davidson: There's always room to add. 

[00:41:49] Becky Pierson Davidson: Go. 

[00:41:50] Becky Pierson Davidson: And you are who your circle is, too. 

[00:41:52] Becky Pierson Davidson: So if you want to level up, you better add more people to your circle that are doing what you want to be doing. 

[00:41:57] Ramli John: If you enjoyed this episode, you'd love the Marketing Powerups newsletter. 

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