Manuela Bárcenas' perfect 1-on-1 template for marketers (Head of Marketing, Fellow.App)

[00:00:00] Ramli John: One of the most useful and powerful meeting that you can have is having a one on one with your manager.

[00:00:05] Ramli John: Have an ally that roots for your work.

[00:00:06] Ramli John: You can also have a mentor that helps accelerate your marketing career.

[00:00:10] Ramli John: The problem is that most people do it wrong.

[00:00:12] Manuela Bárcenas: The mistakes that I've seen in one on ones and mistakes that are commonly mentioned in management books and management resources is exactly what you're saying, which is spending the full hour or the full, like, 40 minutes talking about status updates like, hey, Manuela, how's it going with Project X?

[00:00:29] Manuela Bárcenas: Instead of asking about roadblocks or challenges.

[00:00:33] Ramli John: Today, she'll be sharing the perfect one on one template that she uses for her direct reports as well as a CEO that she reports to.

[00:00:40] Ramli John: In this Marketing Pops episode, you'll first, learn mistakes that you want to avoid in your one on one with your manager.

[00:00:46] Ramli John: Second, how having a growth mindset can really accelerate your career.

[00:00:50] Ramli John: Third, how to own your career so that you're the one who's taking charge and finding that promotion or that increase in salary.

[00:00:57] Ramli John: And number four, how to overcome Imposter syndrome.

[00:01:01] Ramli John: Before we start, I want to tell you that I've created Free Powerups Cheat sheet that you can download, fill in, and apply manual's Perfect 101 template for marketing managers.

[00:01:10] Ramli John: You can find that@marketingpowerups.com right now.

[00:01:13] Ramli John: That link is in the show notes and description.

[00:01:15] The Importance of Managing Up for Marketers

[00:01:15] Ramli John: Are you ready?

[00:01:17] Ramli John: Let's go.

[00:01:18] Announcer: Marketing Powerups ready? GO

[00:01:25] Announcer: Here's your host, Ramli John.

[00:01:29] Ramli John: Let's talk about marketing power ups, and we're going to be talking about managing up.

[00:01:33] Ramli John: It's a super important skill.

[00:01:35] Ramli John: You've been at fellow app now for five years, so you have this experience in fellow itself as a way to help have more productive meetings.

[00:01:46] Ramli John: And I really love this idea because managing up is this idea that you own your career.

[00:01:51] Ramli John: And as marketers, we often have to market ourselves to our boss, whether that's the VP of Marketing or head of marketing, market manager or the startup CEO really have to be able to show that.

[00:02:04] Ramli John: I want to ask you why that is.

[00:02:06] Ramli John: Why is managing up such an important power up important skill for marketers to have?

[00:02:11] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, that's a great question, Ramley, and I think that managing up is a skill that everyone should learn and master in their careers or aim to master.

[00:02:21] Manuela Bárcenas: But I think for marketers, it's very important.

[00:02:23] Manuela Bárcenas: And I would love to hear your thoughts on this because I've heard a lot of marketers say that marketing is one of those fields where a lot of people think that they can have a say in it or have opinions about it or even judge your work as a marketer.

[00:02:37] Manuela Bárcenas: Even people, like, external to the marketing team.

[00:02:40] Manuela Bárcenas: Right?

[00:02:40] Manuela Bárcenas: Like other departments, other people outside of the company.

[00:02:42] Manuela Bárcenas: So I think that it's really crucial that as a marketer, you learn to sell your work, sell your wins, and celebrate that work like not only with your boss but also with the rest of the company.

[00:02:53] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's something that I've learned from mentors, something that I've listened in a lot of podcasts with marketing leaders.

[00:03:00] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that in order to develop as a marketing leader, marketing executive, if that's the career path that you want to take, it's really important to learn to advocate for your work and advocate for your team and showcase that work not only to your manager but also to the rest of the company.

[00:03:18] Manuela Bárcenas: Would you agree?

[00:03:19] Ramli John: Totally.

[00:03:20] Ramli John: It's actually something that Georgiana Lottie in episode three of Marketing Pops talked about how often marketing has a problem, the marketing team has a problem of not marketing marketing inside an organization.

[00:03:33] Ramli John: And the challenge with that is that they're not excited about what you're doing and they're now telling you what the marketing we should be doing and describing why you're doing what you're doing as a marketing team is super important.

[00:03:48] Ramli John: And it's even more important to the one you're reporting to understands that because they have a direct effect into how you manage, but also how potentially you compensated and rewarded with that for sure.

[00:04:04] Manuela Bárcenas: What I'm hearing from you 100% and one thing that I heard recently is that if your marketing doesn't get people inside your company excited, then how do you expect people outside of your company to be excited about it?

[00:04:19] Manuela Bárcenas: So I heard that and it made me realize it's very true.

[00:04:22] Manuela Bárcenas: I think as marketers, it's also our responsibility to almost like market within our own company and make sure that employees in that company are as excited about the product, events, content that we're writing as we expect our customers or prospects to be.

[00:04:40] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:04:40] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's definitely a topic that I'm passionate about and I would love to talk with you about how to also manage that relationship with your boss to make sure that you're showcasing your wins and celebrating the little things along the way.

[00:04:55] Ramli John: Let's talk about that.

[00:04:56] Ramli John: I think managing up is definitely a part we just talked about how it's not just managing up, it's like managing marketing in an organization, being that hyperson within that, but you're talking about showcasing wins to your direct report.

[00:05:13] Ramli John: I'm curious what your thoughts are and how can marketers be more effective at managing up to who they're reporting to their managers?

[00:05:23] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, I've been very lucky to report to our CEO Aiden mirsai for over four years now.

[00:05:30] Manuela Bárcenas: Definitely.

[00:05:30] Manuela Bárcenas: I've learned so much from him as a mentor.

[00:05:33] Manuela Bárcenas: And one of the things that I've learned about managing up is that you really need to get to know your manager's communication style.

[00:05:40] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:05:40] Manuela Bárcenas: And I think it's important to understand how they like to communicate.

[00:05:45] Manuela Bárcenas: Like, does your manager like slack messages every day with updates on your work?

[00:05:50] Manuela Bárcenas: Or is your manager more hands off in the sense that they appreciate when once a week you send them a video up or perhaps your manager loves one on one meetings and appreciates when you come super prepared to those one on ones to talk about priorities and roadblocks and brainstorm on those challenges.

[00:06:08] Manuela Bárcenas: So I would encourage people to take five minutes, sit down and think, what's my manager's communication style?

[00:06:16] Manuela Bárcenas: What have I noticed when they give me positive feedback?

[00:06:20] Manuela Bárcenas: Why is it is it when I communicate my updates, when I communicate about my work?

[00:06:25] Manuela Bárcenas: So, yeah, I would encourage people to think about their manager's communication style and also start communicating more of their priorities and what they're working on.

[00:06:33] Manuela Bárcenas: It's something that I've learned and when I became a manager and it might have happened to you as well.

[00:06:39] Manuela Bárcenas: When you start leading a team, you really appreciate when people take the initiative to tell you what they're working on and tell you maybe like, roadblocks that they're having or challenges that they're having without you as a manager having to be the one that asks or that initiates that conversation.

[00:06:56] Manuela Bárcenas: So I think a key aspect of managing app is leveraging those moments that you have with your manager to communicate your priorities and communicate what you're working on.

[00:07:07] Ramli John: That's a really good point around communicating.

[00:07:10] Ramli John: Exactly.

[00:07:12] Ramli John: I love that the communication style of your manager and that speaks to frequency too.

[00:07:17] Ramli John: Right.

[00:07:17] Ramli John: Some managers want to be sent update once a day might be too much, but once a weekend, what are they kind of looking for?

[00:07:27] Ramli John: Is that something you ask up front to Eden?

[00:07:33] Ramli John: I guess.

[00:07:33] Ramli John: How do you figure out the communication style of a manager?

[00:07:37] Ramli John: Obviously, probably it's not like, what is your communication style?

[00:07:42] Ramli John: Or is it just that?

[00:07:43] Ramli John: Just ask them how?

[00:07:45] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that looking back, it's something that I would definitely like if I was starting at Fellow again or I was starting with a new manager, I think I would ask that question.

[00:07:55] Manuela Bárcenas: I would ask like, hey, as your direct report, as your employee, how would you like me to communicate my priorities with you?

[00:08:03] Manuela Bárcenas: What is your preferred channel for communication?

[00:08:07] Manuela Bárcenas: And maybe as an employer, as a teammate, you could also express how you like to communicate.

[00:08:12] Manuela Bárcenas: So, for example, I love video updates.

[00:08:14] Manuela Bárcenas: Like, instead of, for example, sitting down and giving my manager a five minute presentation on what I'm working on, I've learned that about myself.

[00:08:23] Manuela Bárcenas: I prefer to do it asynchronously in a format that maybe I can plan ahead, prepare what I'm going to say, prepare some metrics, some dashboards, and then record a video.

[00:08:33] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:08:34] Manuela Bárcenas: So, yeah, I think it's an honest conversation that I would encourage other marketers to have with their manager, like, hey, how do you like to hear updates?

[00:08:42] Manuela Bárcenas: Would you rather me tell you in our one on ones or would a video every week work for you?

[00:08:47] Manuela Bárcenas: So just to share an insight for you, that's something that I do with my manager, Aiden.

[00:08:53] Manuela Bárcenas: I like to share a weekly video with, like, weekly updates, what the team is working on, metrics.

[00:08:59] Manuela Bárcenas: And then during our one on ones, that allows us to focus more on discussing those things and brainstorming.

[00:09:06] Manuela Bárcenas: Instead of all just updates, it gets more tactical.

[00:09:09] Ramli John: What do you use to record that video you talk and then what do you show?

[00:09:14] Ramli John: You mentioned metrics, what your team is working on.

[00:09:18] Ramli John: I'm guessing what's coming up in terms.

[00:09:20] Manuela Bárcenas: Of curious details, it's a video that I record every Friday.

[00:09:24] Manuela Bárcenas: And not to plug a Fellow in here, but we have a Fellow note for Aidan's team.

[00:09:31] Manuela Bárcenas: So basically the leadership team that reports to him.

[00:09:35] Manuela Bárcenas: And in that fellow note, we embed a Loom video, each one of us.

[00:09:40] Manuela Bárcenas: So in the Loom video, I talk about weekly updates, weekly KPIs, and then insights.

[00:09:48] Manuela Bárcenas: So, like, interesting things that I think, for example, our head of customer success or our head of sales could also be interested in knowing.

[00:09:56] Manuela Bárcenas: And I appreciate watching their videos as well.

[00:10:00] Manuela Bárcenas: For example, our head of sales shares insights about customers or prospects in the pipeline.

[00:10:06] Manuela Bárcenas: Our head of customer success shares insights about customers.

[00:10:10] Manuela Bárcenas: So I think it's a really great communication method that we've developed at Fellow.

[00:10:14] Ramli John: That's super cool.

[00:10:15] Ramli John: I love that.

[00:10:15] Ramli John: I really love that.

[00:10:17] Ramli John: The little video you share on Friday, can you talk now a little bit about the one on one?

[00:10:22] Ramli John: You said that.

[00:10:23] Ramli John: I really love that.

[00:10:24] Ramli John: It's not about status update.

[00:10:27] Ramli John: Is that a mistake?

[00:10:28] Ramli John: Before we talk about what does a perfect one on one with a manager look like?

[00:10:34] Ramli John: What are some mistakes you've seen?

[00:10:36] Ramli John: You've probably seen quite a few working.

[00:10:39] Ramli John: What are some mistakes that marketers make when they're doing one on one with their manager?

[00:10:46] Manuela Bárcenas: Great question, and I want to give your listeners a little bit of context on why I feel qualified to talk about this.

[00:10:54] Manuela Bárcenas: So over the past five years, I've dedicated months, probably to read and consume content about one on one meetings because that is one of the key focus areas for Fellow, like one of our key use cases.

[00:11:09] Manuela Bárcenas: So I've read lots of books.

[00:11:11] Manuela Bárcenas: We even wrote a guide called The Art of the One on One Meeting, compiling all that knowledge from different sources.

[00:11:17] Manuela Bárcenas: But, yeah, mistakes that I've seen in one on one and mistakes that are commonly mentioned in management books and management resources is exactly what you're saying, which is spending the full hour or the full, like, 40 minutes talking about status updates like, hey, Manuela, how's it going with Project X?

[00:11:35] Manuela Bárcenas: Okay.

[00:11:37] Manuela Bárcenas: Instead of asking about brains, roadblocks, or challenges, another example of a status update could be like, okay, Manuela, can you give me a five minute or ten minute presentation on the marketing team's?

[00:11:49] Manuela Bárcenas: KPIs?

[00:11:50] Manuela Bárcenas: Why would you spend a one on one meeting doing that when you can share that asynchronously and then you can just show up to the one on one talk about those metrics if that makes sense.

[00:12:00] Scaling through AI Marketing with Dmytro Okunyev

[00:12:00] Ramli John: Before we continue, I want to thank those who made this video possible.

[00:12:03] Ramli John: 42 Agency.

[00:12:05] Ramli John: Now when you are in scale up mode and you have KPIs to hit, the pressure is on to deliver demos and sign ups.

[00:12:11] Ramli John: And it's a lot to handle.

[00:12:12] Ramli John: Demand, gen, email sequences, rev ops, and even more.

[00:12:16] Ramli John: That's where 42 Agency, founded by my good friend Camille Rexon, can help you.

[00:12:20] Ramli John: They're a strategic partner that's helped b two B sized companies like Profitwell Teamworks, Proud Social, and Hub Doc build a predictable revenue engine.

[00:12:29] Ramli John: If you're looking for performance experts and creatives to solve your marketing problems at a fraction of the cost of in house, look no further.

[00:12:37] Ramli John: Go to 42 Agency.com to talk to a strategist to learn how you can build a high efficiency revenue engine.

[00:12:43] Ramli John: Now, you can find that link in the description below.

[00:12:46] Creating a One-on-One Template for Productive Meetings

[00:12:46] Ramli John: Let's jump back in.

[00:12:47] Ramli John: The status update is not the purpose of the one on one.

[00:12:49] Ramli John: I guess what I'm hearing is that the one on one should be a place for trying to understand problems and collaboratively find solutions for those problems, is what I'm hearing.

[00:13:00] Manuela Bárcenas: And I actually have a template that I created for my one on one with our CEO Aiden, where there's a specific part of the template that is titled Brainstorming.

[00:13:14] Manuela Bárcenas: So it prompts me to every week bring up problem that I'm having that I need to brainstorm with him.

[00:13:21] Ramli John: We're going to share that template to everyone who is listening to go to marketingpowerups.com.

[00:13:26] Ramli John: They can also Go fellow app, but you have Brainstorming.

[00:13:30] Ramli John: What are other sections in that one on one template that you have?

[00:13:35] Manuela Bárcenas: Going back to the topic of knowing your manager's communication style and perhaps knowing your own communication style, I'm someone who likes to share a lot of personal updates with my coworkers.

[00:13:47] Manuela Bárcenas: I like to be myself at work, shop at work entirely as like myself.

[00:13:54] Manuela Bárcenas: So I actually included a section at the top of the template titled Personal Updates.

[00:14:01] Manuela Bárcenas: That's cool.

[00:14:02] Manuela Bárcenas: It's called Updates Updates and the subheading is something like Personal Updates, Team Updates, and anything else I think you should know.

[00:14:10] Manuela Bárcenas: So that prompts me every week to write updates.

[00:14:13] Manuela Bárcenas: Like I moved to Montreal.

[00:14:15] Manuela Bárcenas: I met this really cool person in Montreal who taught me a lot about startups.

[00:14:20] Manuela Bárcenas: So I like to start my one on one by telling my manager a little bit about myself, a little bit about what I've been up to.

[00:14:27] Manuela Bárcenas: And I think that having that section in the template almost makes it just like thing every week that we're going to start like that.

[00:14:34] Manuela Bárcenas: Even if I forget or even if he forgets, it's already there, right?

[00:14:38] Manuela Bárcenas: So we start with Updates, which I think makes it for a very enjoyable way to start a conversation, right?

[00:14:46] Manuela Bárcenas: The second part of the one on one template is Brainstorming.

[00:14:50] Manuela Bárcenas: Like I said.

[00:14:50] Manuela Bárcenas: So I like to have something there every week to brainstorm about.

[00:14:57] Manuela Bárcenas: It's probably like a challenge that I'm having or a project that I want to get started and I need help from my manager with it.

[00:15:03] Manuela Bárcenas: Okay, so after the brainstorming section, I like to have an open mic section, let's call it that with talking points from both of us.

[00:15:14] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's titled Talking Points and then the subheading is anything else we should discuss today?

[00:15:20] Manuela Bárcenas: So usually that gets flooded with a lot of points that I think about throughout the week.

[00:15:25] Manuela Bárcenas: So let's go back to that topic of managing app and marketing power apps.

[00:15:30] Manuela Bárcenas: I think one huge power app is to populate your one on one agenda throughout the week.

[00:15:37] Manuela Bárcenas: So as a manager or as a marketer, you're probably thinking about a lot of things throughout the week.

[00:15:44] Manuela Bárcenas: Like oh, I should talk to my manager about this, I should ask my manager that.

[00:15:48] Manuela Bárcenas: But sometimes it's worth writing it down in the agenda instead of interrupting your manager over slack.

[00:15:54] Ramli John: That's so true.

[00:15:55] Manuela Bárcenas: So over the week I like to populate that section of the agenda with things that I want to tell my manager or ask him and then we talk about them every Monday at our one on one.

[00:16:29] Manuela Bárcenas: Exactly.

[00:16:30] Manuela Bárcenas: Could be budget related, could be trend related.

[00:16:33] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:16:33] Manuela Bárcenas: Like you saw what, for example, happened recently with shopify getting featured in the news because they deleted a lot of their meetings or they deleted all their meetings for a couple of weeks.

[00:16:47] Manuela Bárcenas: So talking points like that.

[00:16:49] Manuela Bárcenas: Hey, do you see this?

[00:16:50] Ramli John: Yeah.

[00:16:51] Manuela Bárcenas: What do you think we should do about this?

[00:16:53] Manuela Bárcenas: As a company that has a very strong opinion about meeting.

[00:16:56] Ramli John: Right, that's cool.

[00:16:58] Manuela Bárcenas: So that's what I love about having an agenda and having that template.

[00:17:01] Manuela Bárcenas: And then the two last sections in the template are called Async.

[00:17:07] Manuela Bárcenas: So for this Async section I like to write talking points that don't require a discussion.

[00:17:13] Manuela Bárcenas: So because I'm someone who thinks about so many things to tell my manager throughout the week, sometimes in the Async section I write things such as I started reading the new book X, here are some of my favorite takeaways.

[00:17:28] Manuela Bárcenas: But I like to tell my manager what I've been reading, what I've been learning, and maybe we don't have to talk about it, but I want him to know that I'm consuming this content.

[00:17:37] Manuela Bárcenas: And then last but not least, we have the goal check in section.

[00:17:42] Manuela Bárcenas: I like to embed some OKRs there so my manager can just look at them and see the progress for quarterly OKRs.

[00:17:50] Manuela Bárcenas: As a marketing team, let me start again so it's updates brainstorming, talking Points, Async and Goal check in.

[00:18:00] Manuela Bárcenas: That's my personal one on one meeting template with my manager.

[00:18:04] Ramli John: I love it.

[00:18:04] Ramli John: Thank you for sharing that.

[00:18:06] Ramli John: Like I said, people can get that template over marketing pops and fellow that app.

[00:18:12] Ramli John: In terms of that Async, I love that you're sharing, learnings that you have, I think that speaks to the value of having a growth mindset and sharing that to manager.

[00:18:23] Ramli John: Is that the purpose of that?

[00:18:25] Ramli John: It could be anything new that you've learned, any books that you've consumed or any podcast that you thought episode or YouTube video or TikTok video you think is cool is what that is about.

[00:18:36] Manuela Bárcenas: One thing that I learned from the director of engineering at Fellow, Alexandra Sunderland, she wrote a book called Remote Engineering Management, and in the book, she says that oftentimes your manager is not aware of what you're working on or how you're developing yourself.

[00:18:57] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:18:57] Manuela Bárcenas: And maybe as marketers, sometimes we don't do the greatest job at informing our managers about, hey, I'm reading these books, or I'm developing myself in this other way, like attending a workshop or watching a course.

[00:19:12] Manuela Bárcenas: And I think that's actually important to communicate, because then your manager knows that you're developing professionally, and it might help you in the long term when a performance review comes, for example.

[00:19:23] Manuela Bárcenas: So I learned that from Alexandra, and I think there's a lot of power in communicating to your manager how you continue to power up.

[00:19:31] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:19:32] Ramli John: So good.

[00:19:33] Ramli John: Thank you for keep calling out Power up here, but it's so true.

[00:19:37] Ramli John: I think it's just making sure that you're showing to your manager that you're improving yourself, and that attitude really shines out and brings that up.

[00:19:49] Ramli John: When you call it Async, is that something that not necessarily discuss in the one on one just so that they're aware of, or do you actually bring it up like, hey, I just want to share the five things or the most important thing I've learned from this new book directly to Eden?

[00:20:06] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, I decided to call it Async because I like to talk a lot.

[00:20:13] Manuela Bárcenas: I usually come to my one on ones with my manager with a lot of talking points to this guy.

[00:20:18] Ramli John: Right.

[00:20:19] Manuela Bárcenas: I find that it's actually been a way to level up in my career because I keep my manager very informed.

[00:20:27] Manuela Bárcenas: So then there was one day where Aidan and I made the decision to create an Async section because some of those things I just wanted to share as FYIs.

[00:20:38] Manuela Bárcenas: So before creating the Async section, I would start the meeting saying, like, hey, I just wanted to let you know about these things.

[00:20:44] Manuela Bárcenas: It's just an FYI that I want you to be aware of.

[00:20:48] Manuela Bárcenas: And then we realized, like, oh, let's just write them in the note as an Async section.

[00:20:53] Manuela Bárcenas: And Aiden told me, I'll read them for the meeting, and I'll let you know if I have any questions.

[00:20:59] Manuela Bárcenas: But it can be more like an Async FYI section for things that I want him to know, but they don't require any discussion.

[00:21:06] Ramli John: I think the other value to this is that now your manager can be like, oh, you learned this thing, and then they build on that during the one on one, so it could become part of the brainstorm where it kind of builds on top of each other as a new idea based on that.

[00:21:25] Ramli John: So I'm guessing that's happened before you brought up an idea in your Async, and then he brings it up because it's like, oh, this is cool.

[00:21:33] Ramli John: We should try this.

[00:21:35] Manuela Bárcenas: Exactly.

[00:21:37] Manuela Bárcenas: Or he said, like, hey, I read your FYI section, your Async section.

[00:21:41] Manuela Bárcenas: This is really cool.

[00:21:42] Manuela Bárcenas: Tell me more about it.

[00:21:44] Manuela Bárcenas: If we have time after all the talking points.

[00:21:47] Manuela Bárcenas: I'm curious, Rami, do you like to have a template for your one on one meetings, or is it something that you're contemplating now?

[00:21:54] Ramli John: It is something that I don't have one right now.

[00:21:57] Ramli John: The problem that I have is that I think for a lot of marketers and I feel like this is even up to this point, is that it changes from week to week.

[00:22:09] Ramli John: 30 minutes before the meeting, I'm like, I need to put something down.

[00:22:13] Ramli John: I have to talk about something.

[00:22:15] Ramli John: I like your points.

[00:22:17] Ramli John: First of all, write it as you go through the week.

[00:22:20] Ramli John: And second is like having a template kind of helps you fill out this form.

[00:22:23] Ramli John: It's almost like madlib, where if somebody tells you, Manola, write a story, you're like, okay, what story?

[00:22:30] Ramli John: What is it about?

[00:22:31] Ramli John: Instead of filling the blanks or give me a noun, give me a name, and then all of a sudden you have this story.

[00:22:37] Ramli John: It really does make it better to fill out.

[00:22:41] Ramli John: So definitely something that I'm going to start doing based on this discussion, which is super cool.

[00:22:46] Ramli John: I hope the template is helpful, for sure.

[00:22:49] Ramli John: Before I talk about how you're helping your direct reports manage up, how long is this?

[00:22:55] Ramli John: I'm guessing this one on one is like half an hour.

[00:22:57] Ramli John: That's what I've seen mostly.

[00:22:58] Ramli John: But is that fair to say?

[00:23:00] Ramli John: Like, that's how long your one on one with Aidan takes up, or is it mine?

[00:23:03] Manuela Bárcenas: Is 50 minutes per week.

[00:23:06] Manuela Bárcenas: 50 or 15550, usually.

[00:23:11] Manuela Bárcenas: We have a lot to talk about, and as the CEO, I think Aidan is very busy throughout the week, so I appreciate that.

[00:23:20] Manuela Bárcenas: He gives me, like, 50 minutes to an hour every Monday to focus his attention on marketing and Manuela as his direct report.

[00:23:31] Manuela Bárcenas: So I guess that's a tip for managers out there.

[00:23:33] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that giving your direct reports 1 hour a week can really show them that you care and that you want to invest time in them.

[00:23:42] Manuela Bárcenas: And if you feel like an hour is too long, yes, you can try with 30 minutes or something that I've done with my team.

[00:23:49] Manuela Bárcenas: And like I've said, I've read a lot of management books on this topic, and a lot of those books say that when you have more than six or seven direct reports, then you can start thinking about making those one on one bi weekly.

[00:24:02] Manuela Bárcenas: Bi weekly.

[00:24:03] Manuela Bárcenas: But if they are biweekly, make sure they last 1 hour.

[00:24:06] Manuela Bárcenas: So your direct report has enough time to share thoughts and blockers from the previous two weeks.

[00:24:12] Ramli John: That makes a ton of sense with that, like bi weekly, I've seen that as well as making sure it's an hour, that's something that makes a good .1 of the things that I'm curious about is fitting into how I've heard the advice, you own your career, you make sure to communicate that to your manager.

[00:24:33] Ramli John: Would that be part of especially during the beginning of the year where you're setting goals for the team, for your own self?

[00:24:41] Ramli John: That's probably part of the talking points.

[00:24:44] Ramli John: What you want to achieve with your career in the future is part of your talking points with Eden.

[00:24:49] Ramli John: For sure, yeah.

[00:24:50] Manuela Bárcenas: I think it's important as marketers that we communicate to our managers what our goals are.

[00:24:56] Manuela Bárcenas: And it's something that I admire from a lot of people at Bello in the marketing team.

[00:25:01] Manuela Bárcenas: I appreciate that they communicate with me like, hey, my goal for the next two, three years is to become a product marketing manager, a senior designer, and I encourage them to tell me their goals.

[00:25:16] Manuela Bárcenas: That's one thing that leaders can do.

[00:25:18] Manuela Bárcenas: But if your manager is not asking you about your goals, which rambly unfortunately, it's the truth for the majority of people because managers are also busy and sometimes it's hard to remember to ask people about their career goals.

[00:25:31] Manuela Bárcenas: So as the person in charge of your own development, you can bring it up with your manager.

[00:25:35] Manuela Bárcenas: So something that I do once in a while is use those courses or resources on marketing that I'm consuming to initiate a conversation with my manager.

[00:25:45] Manuela Bárcenas: So, for example, let's say I'm taking a course about growth marketing and it's an opportunity to express to my manager, like, hey, in the next six months, just so you know, I really want to develop my knowledge and experience in this area of marketing.

[00:26:03] Manuela Bárcenas: So maybe one thing you could say to your manager is I would appreciate if any projects in this area come up if you considered me to be a part of them.

[00:26:13] Manuela Bárcenas: Right.

[00:26:14] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that's one way in which marketers can take the reign of their career.

[00:26:18] Ramli John: Right, that's true.

[00:26:19] Ramli John: I think that making sure that your manager knows what you want to achieve or want to focus on developing.

[00:26:25] Ramli John: Like for example, you mentioned growth marketing.

[00:26:27] Ramli John: Now it's in the back of their mind and hopefully when something comes along, it's like, oh, we should do this because manualA wants to focus on growth marketing.

[00:26:36] Ramli John: So I really love communicating that, particularly the goals that you have.

[00:26:41] Ramli John: I'm curious now, as well as how you're helping your direct reports manage up.

[00:26:46] Ramli John: I'm guessing, do they use the same template you use?

[00:26:49] Ramli John: I'm really curious about that.

[00:26:51] Ramli John: Or do they have everybody have their own template that they use based on their preference?

[00:26:57] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, you know what, Remli, I like to tell people on my team that they are the owners of the one on one meeting.

[00:27:04] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that's something that managers can do.

[00:27:06] Manuela Bárcenas: As soon as you hire someone, you can set expectations with them by saying like for example hey Camilla, welcome to the team.

[00:27:13] Manuela Bárcenas: I'll be scheduling a weekly one on one meeting with you.

[00:27:17] Manuela Bárcenas: Just so you know, the purpose of these one on one is to talk about any challenges you might having, brainstorm ideas, and also talk about your professional development.

[00:27:26] Manuela Bárcenas: And my expectation as your manager is that you own these meetings, so you will come up with talking points every week.

[00:27:33] Manuela Bárcenas: So that is something.

[00:27:35] Manuela Bárcenas: It's almost like an email template that I have for everyone that joins the team at Bello.

[00:27:40] Manuela Bárcenas: And I always encourage them to create their own template.

[00:27:45] Manuela Bárcenas: So even recently, for someone that has been reporting to me for like two years in our one on one, I said, I asked like, hey, is this template still working for you or do you want to revise it?

[00:27:57] Manuela Bárcenas: And I showed her my template with my manager and I said hey look, this is what I did with my manager.

[00:28:02] Manuela Bárcenas: Feel free to change our template in any way you will find helpful.

[00:28:05] Manuela Bárcenas: So I guess one tip for managers there would be to encourage their teammates to own the one on one and create their own template.

[00:28:12] Ramli John: Also, what I love you did there, it's like you mentioned earlier, one of the best ways to manage up is to understand your manager's communication style.

[00:28:21] Ramli John: You share up front.

[00:28:22] Ramli John: Here is my communication style.

[00:28:24] Ramli John: I love for you to own this.

[00:28:27] Ramli John: You're probably mentioning the frequency that you want to get updates.

[00:28:31] Ramli John: Is that part of that package or that email that you sent to your new direct reports?

[00:28:36] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah.

[00:28:37] Manuela Bárcenas: So as a manager of the marketing team at Fellow, I have a cadence for communication.

[00:28:44] Manuela Bárcenas: So on Mondays I have a weekly kickoff meeting.

[00:28:48] Manuela Bárcenas: So when someone joins the team, I explain like in these meetings, we talk about our weekly priorities, projects that we're all working on, we brainstorm ideas as a marketing team and then on a weekly basis I will have a one on one meeting with you where we talk about your challenges, your professional development.

[00:29:06] Manuela Bárcenas: And then on Fridays I have a Slack bot in the marketing team channel in Slack.

[00:29:12] Manuela Bárcenas: It's on Fridays at 04:00 p.m.

[00:29:14] Manuela Bárcenas: And like you said, it's part of my communication style as a manager.

[00:29:17] Manuela Bárcenas: So when you join my team, I like to tell you these things.

[00:29:20] Manuela Bárcenas: So on Fridays at 04:00 p.m., there's a Slack bot that says like hey everyone, happy Friday, the weekend is almost here.

[00:29:27] Manuela Bárcenas: Share any updates and insights under this thread with the rest of the team.

[00:29:32] Manuela Bárcenas: So the team is super proactive in writing, how many blog posts they published, how many videos they edited, any learnings insights in that Slack thread?

[00:29:43] Manuela Bárcenas: And I like that it's asynchronous because then on Monday we need to talk about things.

[00:29:47] Manuela Bárcenas: Without necessarily like, just sharing updates again.

[00:29:50] Ramli John: That's so good.

[00:29:51] Ramli John: You're following your own advice, you're sharing communication style, you're making sure that the direct reports own the meeting and they're communicating in the one on one more about their challenges and their goals that they want to achieve for that.

[00:30:07] Ramli John: So I really love that.

[00:30:10] Ramli John: Before we talk about career power ups, do you have any final tips about one on one or any managing up before we talk about Imposter Syndrome and managing that as well?

[00:30:21] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, one thing that I've learned, Ramley, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this again, is I think you need to learn to be empathetic with your manager.

[00:30:31] Manuela Bárcenas: And it's something that I hadn't thought about before becoming a manager, but then I talked about it with two of my closest peers at Fellow, Sarah and Alexandra, who are the Director of Engineering and head of Customer Success.

[00:30:46] Manuela Bárcenas: And the three of us have become very close because we talk about managing a lot and share management insights.

[00:30:54] Manuela Bárcenas: And one of the things that we discussed recently was before becoming a manager, it's very easy to criticize your manager's communication style or how they don't pay attention to you, or how they forget about something you said.

[00:31:08] Manuela Bárcenas: But then when you become a manager, you realize, wow, managers are so busy, like meeting with different people on their team, trying to meet everyone's needs.

[00:31:16] Manuela Bárcenas: And I'm not here justifying managers who perhaps don't remember things or are not paying enough attention to their teams.

[00:31:25] Manuela Bárcenas: But I'm just here to say that sometimes we have to be empathetic with our managers, with our leaders, and understand that hopefully most of the time they are trying their best.

[00:31:35] Manuela Bárcenas: And if you don't like something about your manager, I think it's also on you to communicate that with your manager.

[00:31:41] Manuela Bárcenas: So, yeah, I think it's something that I've learned in my career and I would love to know if you come to the same realization at some point.

[00:31:49] Ramli John: Yeah, I love that.

[00:31:51] Ramli John: I think empathizing with the manager is super important.

[00:31:54] Ramli John: It also helps a lot if the person who is managing you, your manager, they have the same growth mindset, they want to improve and they're asking you, how can I better improve helping manage you?

[00:32:11] Ramli John: Particularly with this.

[00:32:13] Ramli John: One of my previous manager asked me this once, and it's easy to say nothing because they feel like I don't want to get a bad report.

[00:32:21] Ramli John: But there was one time when I mentioned that, I mentioned that I feel like sometimes you overpower the conversation with the whole marketing team and everybody agrees with you because they don't want to disagree.

[00:32:35] Ramli John: And then he started being asking up front, anybody else?

[00:32:42] Ramli John: Any thoughts before I mentioned mine?

[00:32:44] Ramli John: Because I want to hear from everybody.

[00:32:46] Ramli John: So I think it's super important that it's easy to criticize, but to improve as a team, it's important to share those thoughts.

[00:32:54] Ramli John: I guess it's important.

[00:32:56] Manuela Bárcenas: Wow, that's amazing.

[00:32:57] Manuela Bárcenas: And Rumble, you reminded me one of my favorite authors is Julie Sue so she was the VP of Product Design at Facebook.

[00:33:04] Manuela Bárcenas: Now she's an entrepreneur, and she wrote a book titled The Making of a Manager.

[00:33:10] Manuela Bárcenas: So for anyone listening to this podcast, I highly recommend that book.

[00:33:14] Manuela Bárcenas: If you want to go into the management path, or even if you're already a very experienced manager, there is something to learn there.

[00:33:21] Manuela Bárcenas: But she also has a newsletter, and in one of her newsletter issues, she talked about owning your career.

[00:33:27] Manuela Bárcenas: And I really liked how she gave this example of a meeting.

[00:33:30] Manuela Bárcenas: Like, let's pretend you have a team meeting every week.

[00:33:33] Manuela Bárcenas: So someone who doesn't own their career would just complain about the team meetings and maybe complain to a coworker, like, oh my God, this team meeting is so boring.

[00:33:42] Manuela Bárcenas: Why do we have to attend this?

[00:33:43] Manuela Bárcenas: Right?

[00:33:44] Manuela Bárcenas: But then the medium level, like, someone who owns their career a little bit more would be like, you know what?

[00:33:51] Manuela Bárcenas: I like to share some feedback with the meeting organizer that this meeting is taking too long, and I will let them know so they can improve the meeting so that's like, medium level owner of your career.

[00:34:02] Manuela Bárcenas: And then she said, but if you really want to own your career and make a difference at your company, you could probably talk to the meeting organizer and say, like, hey, I've noticed that these meetings are lacking some dynamics or energy.

[00:34:19] Manuela Bárcenas: I would love to host one of them if you let me, or help you host one of them so we can split the work.

[00:34:26] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's a very simple example, and I think it applies to so many areas of work, but I think it's all about being an owner and helping other people at work instead of complaining.

[00:34:38] Manuela Bárcenas: And I love that, for example, you gave your manager that feedback.

[00:34:41] Manuela Bárcenas: As hard as that could have been and as awkward as that could have been, that probably made him a better manager in the long term.

[00:34:49] Manuela Bárcenas: So I think it's good to share that feedback and own those things.

[00:34:54] Ramli John: That's so true.

[00:34:56] Ramli John: I really do agree with that.

[00:34:58] Ramli John: I think the other advantage to that, and this is something that I've heard, is that when you do give that feedback to the manager, they respect you more because everybody says everything's great.

[00:35:10] Ramli John: But when that person has a growth mindset and somebody points out something that can be improved, they're like, yes, help me improve myself.

[00:35:18] Ramli John: Help me improve the team.

[00:35:19] Ramli John: And with that example you mentioned with Julie, if that meeting organizer had let's win together mindset, then they're like, yes, you're taking a workload off my plate.

[00:35:34] Ramli John: Please do.

[00:35:35] Ramli John: Please help me out with this.

[00:35:36] Ramli John: For sure.

[00:35:36] Ramli John: So I totally love that example that you shared there.

[00:35:41] Ramli John: I want to switch gears and talk about career power ups.

[00:35:43] Ramli John: You've been head of marketing now for several years, you're also a career coach for up and coming marketers.

[00:35:51] Ramli John: You've written and given talks a lot about Imposter Syndrome and in the past.

[00:35:56] Ramli John: I'd love to hear your thoughts and what are some power ups that you have used yourself and that you can share about overcoming Imposter Syndrome, some practical ways to really overcome Imposter Syndrome?

[00:36:09] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah, I love this question.

[00:36:10] Manuela Bárcenas: I think it's something that a lot of us have felt at one point or another in our careers, just like the feeling of perhaps not belonging or I recently heard someone describe Imposter Syndrome as this sense that you just got lucky.

[00:36:23] Manuela Bárcenas: And the reason why where you are right now is because you got lucky, not because you actually deserve it.

[00:36:30] Manuela Bárcenas: So one of my favorite things to do to overcome Imposter Syndrome and this is a very tactical tip, is to create a list of your wins and make sure you keep that updated with positive feedback from your managers, positive feedback from your peers.

[00:36:46] Manuela Bárcenas: If you meet with a customer and they share positive feedback about your company's marketing or the content, make sure to write that down in your list.

[00:36:55] Manuela Bárcenas: So I like to call this my Hype document, and I actually stole this term from David Huang, who is the I think he's the VP of Product Design at Webflow.

[00:37:08] Manuela Bárcenas: I think that's his title.

[00:37:09] Manuela Bárcenas: But he works in product design at Webflow, and we had him as a guest on the Supermanagers podcast.

[00:37:15] Manuela Bárcenas: And he talked about Hype docs and how career hype docs are so important because they not only help you overcome those moments of insecurity because you can look back your wins and your accomplishments, but also when performance reviews come and the time comes for you to advocate for yourself in front of your manager, you have a list of things that you can basically show off or talk about, and you've been tracking them throughout the year.

[00:37:40] Manuela Bárcenas: So to give your listeners, like, a very clear example of this, whenever my manager shares positive feedback over slack like, for example, we recently hosted an event, right, the Engineering Leadership Summit.

[00:37:51] Manuela Bárcenas: And Aidan was very nice after the event and messaged me saying, like, hey, Manuela, congrats.

[00:37:56] Manuela Bárcenas: Your team really did an amazing job organizing this event.

[00:37:59] Manuela Bárcenas: I'm so impressed.

[00:38:00] Manuela Bárcenas: Right?

[00:38:00] Manuela Bárcenas: Something like that.

[00:38:01] Manuela Bárcenas: Took a screenshot, added it to my list.

[00:38:05] Manuela Bárcenas: That's a very recent example.

[00:38:07] Manuela Bárcenas: And I would encourage every marketer to create a list of their hype.

[00:38:12] Ramli John: So good.

[00:38:14] Ramli John: Is that a Google Doc for you?

[00:38:16] Ramli John: Is that a Google Doc or is.

[00:38:17] Manuela Bárcenas: That it's a Fellow node.

[00:38:20] Ramli John: I love how you're using.

[00:38:24] Manuela Bárcenas: For anyone here using Fellow who wants to check out Fellow, we have a gallery of 500 plates, and one of those templates is called I think it's called you got this document.

[00:38:36] Manuela Bárcenas: It's a template to start tracking your wins in Fellows.

[00:38:40] Manuela Bárcenas: It's cool to be a part of a company that cares so much about these things because you get to influence the product in that way.

[00:38:47] Manuela Bárcenas: The second tip that I wanted to share on overcoming Imposter Syndrome is related to the two coworkers that I told you about earlier.

[00:38:55] Manuela Bárcenas: So, Sarah and Alexandra, throughout the last four years, the three of us have really supported each other when it comes to career growth, insecurities moments off, like just wanting to talk about your professional life or goals.

[00:39:11] Manuela Bárcenas: And the tactical tip here for marketers is to find peers who you can get very vulnerable with.

[00:39:19] Manuela Bárcenas: And I think that is really helpful because those peers will often remind you of the amazing things you've done, of the amazing marketer that you are and will probably help you overcome that Imposter Syndrome moment.

[00:39:32] Manuela Bárcenas: I don't know, Ram, if you have those peers in your life that remind.

[00:39:37] Ramli John: You for sure how awesome you are yeah.

[00:39:40] Ramli John: I think having that's something that I've also heard from Gia, she has I think she call it like a Hype crew, actually.

[00:39:49] Ramli John: She call it it's called a Hype crew.

[00:39:51] Ramli John: I love that.

[00:39:52] Ramli John: Yeah.

[00:39:52] Ramli John: Similarly, there's one or two people that I meet once a month, at least outside of the company, that has helped me even give advice about, career wise, whether it's time to move on or what to decide on.

[00:40:07] Ramli John: So I really love having those peers that you have.

[00:40:10] Manuela Bárcenas: Yeah.

[00:40:11] Manuela Bárcenas: And for all those management enthusiasts like me out there, another one of my favorite authors in this space is Lara Hogan, and she also has a newsletter.

[00:40:22] Manuela Bárcenas: And one of her articles for that newsletter was about building your manager voltron.

[00:40:28] Manuela Bárcenas: So a voltron, she said, is like this, like a transformer, like, figure.

[00:40:33] Manuela Bárcenas: But she talks about the importance of surrounding yourself with other managers who almost create, like, a transformer of managers working together and helping each other.

[00:40:44] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's a concept that I like to share as well.

[00:40:48] Ramli John: That's so good voltron.

[00:40:49] Ramli John: It's such a good brand on its own.

[00:40:54] Manuela Bárcenas: Build your manager voltron.

[00:40:56] Manuela Bárcenas: And then the third thing that I want to share in terms of tactical ways to combat Imposter Syndrome is that growth mindset that you were talking about, Ramley.

[00:41:05] Manuela Bárcenas: I think it's really important as professionals, especially in the marketing space, with changes so quickly, right?

[00:41:11] Manuela Bárcenas: Like, even now with Chat GPT, we're all like, wondering what's going to happen, right?

[00:41:17] Manuela Bárcenas: But I think that if you keep a growth mindset in the sense that you always challenge yourself to keep learning, to network with other marketers, to stay curious, I think that the more you learn, the more confident you become about your craft.

[00:41:33] Manuela Bárcenas: So I think it's really important to have this mindset of never stop learning, always be consuming marketing content, and that will help you become a more confident marketer and overcome those moments of insecurity.

[00:41:46] Manuela Bárcenas: So, yeah, listening to great podcasts like this one is an example of that.

[00:41:50] Ramli John: I love that.

[00:41:50] Ramli John: That's so true.

[00:41:51] Ramli John: I think having that mindset is super important and all of this so good.

[00:41:57] Ramli John: Have a hype dog be build your manager of Voltron and making sure that you have this growth mindset altogether.

[00:42:06] Ramli John: This are really great advice.

[00:42:09] Ramli John: Before we wrap up, one final question.

[00:42:11] Ramli John: If you can give a younger version of Manual, one or two piece of advice, somebody who's just starting out in marketing, what kind of advice would you send through time, back in time to that younger version of you?

[00:42:27] Ramli John: It could be around career, it could be around marketing, it could even be around outside of both.

[00:42:32] Ramli John: But it's a piece of advice that you'd love to share to your younger self.

[00:42:37] Manuela Bárcenas: Ramley, one career power up that I wanted to share with your audience is that I think people are friendlier than you think in terms of wanting to spend time with younger professionals and mentor them and coach them.

[00:42:56] Manuela Bárcenas: I've been very lucky throughout my career to have very experienced marketers and very experienced executives mentor me.

[00:43:04] Manuela Bárcenas: And I think that it's just a matter of showing a lot of interest in their work and staying very curious and asking them a lot of questions.

[00:43:13] Manuela Bárcenas: And one career hack that I found recently is to well, not so recently, but that I found over the last years is to message people on LinkedIn to actually reach out to people and say, hey Ramley, I just looked at your profile, your career looks very inspiring.

[00:43:34] Manuela Bárcenas: It's something that I would love to explore.

[00:43:38] Manuela Bárcenas: Do you have 15 minutes maybe like this Friday to talk about it and inspire a young marketer?

[00:43:45] Manuela Bárcenas: So it's something that I've learned and that has worked really well for me and perhaps it's how we started chatting.

[00:43:51] Manuela Bárcenas: I'm not sure about how we met a while ago, but I do reach out to a lot of people on LinkedIn and I've learned that people are friendly and willing to help others and I'm really thankful for people with that mindset.

[00:44:04] Manuela Bárcenas: So now I'm super honored that some people reach out to me with the same goal, with the same intention.

[00:44:11] Manuela Bárcenas: And I tried to give back and I tried to meet with them because I know that it helped me so much when other marketers do it for me.

[00:44:20] Manuela Bárcenas: So I would encourage people to reach out to others and I would encourage senior marketers to be willing to mentor junior marketers so we can all continue to learn together.

[00:44:30] Ramli John: I hope you found this conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did.

[00:44:35] Ramli John: Actually started applying that one on one template that Manual shares to my own work with my manager.

[00:44:40] Ramli John: You find once again that template the Powerups teach you@marketingpowerups.com as well as you can follow manualA on LinkedIn as well as check out fellow at fellow app.

[00:44:51] Ramli John: All those links are in the show.

[00:44:52] Ramli John: Notes Description well, thank you to Manual for being on the show.

[00:44:56] Ramli John: If you enjoyed this episode, you'd love the Marketing Powerups newsletter.

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