Matt Ragland's 7-figure newsletter monetization strategy

Matt Ragland's 7-figure newsletter monetization strategy

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Matt Ragland, Managing Director at Good People Digital, shares his 7-figure newsletter monetization strategy for content creators and marketers.

If I had to pick one marketing channel to focus on, it’d be email marketing.  

Why? Because it's a relationship that you own, control, and can nurture.

It's a direct line to your audience, unfiltered by algorithms or platform policies. And when done right, it can be a gold mine.

Today, we're diving deep into the world of email marketing with none other than Matt Ragland. With a wealth of experience under his belt, having worked with creators at ConvertKit and Podia, and now serving as the managing director at Good People Digital, Matt is a force to be reckoned with in the email marketing space.

He's here to share his Hersey Kiss Strategy for making 7-figures with an email list.

In this Marketing Powerups episode, you'll learn:

  • The common pitfalls that marketers should avoid when consulting and advising.
  • Why focus on content, distribution, and referrals first.
  • The “Hersey Kiss” strategy for monetizing your email list.
  • A powerup that’s accelerated Matt’s career.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcast and Spotify now, or watch it on YouTube.

I want to thank the sponsor of this episode, 42/Agency.

When you're in scale-up mode, and you have KPIs to hit, the pressure is on to deliver demos and signups.

And it's a lot to handle: demand gen, email sequences, revenue ops, and more! That’s where 42/Agency, founded by my friend Kamil Rextin, can help you.

They’re a strategic partner that’s helped B2B SaaS companies like ProfitWell, Teamwork, Sprout Social and Hubdoc build a predictable revenue engine.

If you’re looking for performance experts and creatives to solve your marketing problems at a fraction of the cost of in-house, look no further.

Go to to talk to a strategist to learn how you can build a high-efficiency revenue engine now.

⭐️ 7 steps to a 7-figure newsletter

Building a profitable business from your email list is possible, but it requires strategy. In this post, we'll cover the 7 steps to make 7 figures from your list, with insights from email marketing expert Matt Ragland.

1. Create valuable content. 🔥

The first step is simply creating helpful content that establishes your expertise and credibility.

"Sharing thoughts and ideas builds trust. Sharing your expertise on platforms like Twitter and LinkedIn can even open doors to unexpected hiring opportunities."

A power-up in this step is to stay focused on a niche topic rather than covering a wide range of themes. What do you want to be known for? Then, share tips and solutions to problems around that topic.

2. Distribute your content. 📢

Get your content onto the major platforms to increase exposure. You need to leverage online platforms such as TikTok, Reels, newsletters, and social media to reach a wider audience. By consistently sharing valuable content, professionals can gain visibility and build a reputation that attracts potential clients and employers.

"If I go look you up on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, whatever, I want to see 30 pieces of content, probably minimum on a niche topic. Consistency is the key."

3. Generate referrals. 🎉

Referrals happen naturally when you create helpful content. But you can amplify them by asking satisfied customers to share your work. According to Matt, "Referrals is just a type of distribution. You're distributing it through referrals."

4. Offer a paid membership. 🤝

Consider offering a paid subscription for your most engaged subscribers. Matt explains how this works for Ryan Holiday's Stoic emails:

"He has a membership that I don't think most people know about. It's a natural extension of the newsletter itself. You get weekend emails. So it truly is daily. You get access to a forum. And you get access to all of his courses."

5. Sell impulse products. 🏎

Impulse products are inexpensive offerings under $100, such as e-books, templates, or mini-courses that cater to customers' spontaneous purchase tendencies. They allow subscribers to support you financially in a low-risk way.

"It's easier to find 100 people to pay you $50 than to find one person to pay you $5,000. Find ways to get people to open up their wallets in a low-risk way."

6. Create commitment products. 💋

Commitment products are more extensive educational offerings priced around $1000. According to Matt, this is a "premium cohort model" that requires greater customer commitment but is highly scalable. For example, you could offer a four to six-week cohort course.

7. Offer private coaching or advising. 🧠

One-on-one coaching is the pinnacle of monetization. Matt explains, "you can only have so many clients at once unless you become a coaching certifier." But it allows you to charge premium rates to high-value clients up to $10,000 or higher.

Free powerups cheatsheet

Subscribe now to instantly unlock a powerups cheatsheet that you can download, fill in, and apply Matt Ragland's 7 steps to a 7-figure newsletter.

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    🎉 About Matt Ragland

    Matt Ragland is an email marketing and online course expert dedicated to helping creators build sustainable businesses around their email lists. As Managing Director at Good People Digital, Matt develops high-impact email, content, and education strategies for authors, coaches, and digital entrepreneurs. With over a decade of experience in the creator economy, Matt has worked with leading platforms like ConvertKit and Podia. He previously led growth at multiple startups and ran his own courses, generating over $100K in revenue.

    🕰️ Timestamps and transcript

    • 00:00:00 Email marketing: a valuable channel for success.
    • 00:06:24 Understanding financial commitments is the biggest thing.
    • 00:14:29 Started consulting and implementing email/courses for revenue.
    • 00:16:16 Matt Ragland's career journey.
    • 00:20:07 42 Agency — Build a Predictable Revenue Engine.
    • 00:20:53 Riverside FM - A Podcast Recording Tool
    • 00:22:13 Learning from experiences and making changes.
    • 00:29:52 Building trust through sharing ideas and expertise.
    • 00:36:20 Think intentionally, but don't overthink. Show up and do the work.
    • 00:39:49 7-step plan for scalable, passive income.
    • 00:43:08 A progression from coaching to self-guided courses.
    • 00:49:27 Promote courses for clients, make money quickly.
    • 00:58:52 Substack offers extra content for a monthly fee.
    • 00:59:34 Simple value proposition: courses, membership, monetization.

    Episode transcript

    [00:00:00] Maximizing the Power of Email Marketing with Matt Raglan

    Ramli John: If I had to pick one marketing channel to focus on, it'd be email marketing. 

    Ramli John: Why? 

    Ramli John: Because it's a relationship that you own, control and you can nurture. 

    Ramli John: It's a direct line to your audience, unfiltered by algorithms and platform policies. 

    Ramli John: When done right, it can be a gold mine. 

    Ramli John: Today, we're diving deep into the world of email marketing with none other than Matt Raglan. 

    Ramli John: He has a wealth of experience under his belt, having worked with creators at ConvertKit and Podia is now he's serving as the Managing director at Good People Digital. 

    Ramli John: Matt is a force to be reckoned with when it comes to email marketing. 

    Ramli John: He's here to share his Hershey Kiss strategy from making seven figures with an email list. 

    Ramli John: In this Marketing Props episode, you learn first, the common pitfalls marketers should avoid when consulting and advising. 

    Ramli John: Second, why focusing on content distribution and referrals are so important. 

    Ramli John: 1st. 

    Ramli John: Third, the Hershey Kiss strategy for monetizing your email list. 

    Ramli John: And fourth, a power up that's accelerated Matt's career. 

    Ramli John: To help you apply Matt's Hershey Kiss monetization strategy, I've created a free Powerups cheat sheet that you can download for free marketing 

    Ramli John: Find the link in the show notes and description. 

    Ramli John: Are you ready? 

    Ramli John: Let's go. 

    Matt Ragland: Marketing powerups ready. 

    Ramli John: Go. 

    Matt Ragland: Here's your host, Ramli.

    [00:01:17] Knowing The Right Time To Transition Into A Solo Creator with Matt Ragland

    Ramli John: John, we were talking about when, you know, it's like time to move on. 

    Ramli John: I feel like lately, especially with what's happening in the economy and the tech scene, I feel like a lot of marketers have been really thinking a lot about that, about stepping out and it's something that's also internal and personal to me. 

    Ramli John: I've been thinking a lot about when it's the right time to do my own thing. 

    Ramli John: You suggested this book calling. 

    Ramli John: I'm curious, you made that move like almost three years ago in 2020. 

    Ramli John: I guess you're probably going to say it depends, but how do you know when it's time to move to become a full time solo creator or the Advisor marketing advice, whatever that is for. 

    Matt Ragland: Folks, I do recommend starting to build before you know it's time. 

    Matt Ragland: That's part of it for me. 

    Matt Ragland: If you can get to a certain amount in savings or I think actually a better this is kind of a limiting belief like, trick that I played on myself, like, looking back is instead of thinking of it in terms like, oh, I need X number of dollars in the bank. 

    Matt Ragland: It's probably better to think about how much revenue have I generated from these non salary positions? 

    Matt Ragland: Because this was the thing. 

    Matt Ragland: Romney. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, well, when I get whatever, 30K in the bank, then it's like, okay, I feel pretty good. 

    Matt Ragland: And I would get to like 15 2020. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, oh, it's close. 

    Matt Ragland: And then some expenses would come up and I'm not going to get all super woo woo, but I was at a Mastermind and I was talking about this with some of the other members and like, oh, you need this. 

    Matt Ragland: Well how much money have you made from your how much money have you made from your side hustle in the last twelve to 18 months? 

    Matt Ragland: Because you say you need like 30K in the bank, but how much have you made? 

    Matt Ragland: And I looked it up over like ten minutes, just like very simple like course reports, AdSense, blah blah blah, and think I had ended up I had made like 70 grand in the previous 18 months. 

    Matt Ragland: Like, okay, well could you do at least that or probably like 40 or 50% more if it's the only thing that you're doing? 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, probably could. 

    Matt Ragland: And they're like, okay, there's your salary. 

    Matt Ragland: And so instead of thinking about like, I need X number, you still definitely can, but I would say if you have trouble getting to your savings account number, maybe it's better to look at, okay, how much have I really been generating? 

    Matt Ragland: And then extrapolate that out. 

    Matt Ragland: So that's like one thing. 

    Matt Ragland: Start to build. 

    Matt Ragland: That's very practical, but start to build before you think it's time. 

    Matt Ragland: And then we just talked about prioritization with Kiddos and work. 

    Matt Ragland: This had started to happen because our now four and a half year old was basically one when I quit. 

    Matt Ragland: And part of it for me was that YouTube was going well. 

    Matt Ragland: I had run a couple of courses, I was doing some coaching on the side and I said I had been generating that revenue and it got to a point where I knew that something was going to have to take a pretty significant step back or I was just going to have to start working more. 

    Matt Ragland: So I've always run with a few sprint exceptions, run a pretty balanced life, 40 to 50 hours of work per week, sometimes as low as 30, 35, but kind of in that normal range, lots of time with family. 

    Matt Ragland: And I was like, well if I want to do more with my side hustle, then I'm going to have to work more on it to grow it. 

    Matt Ragland: So where's that time going to come from? 

    Matt Ragland: Is it going to come from what it had been coming from was taking time away from my family. 

    Matt Ragland: So I was doing like 45, 50 hours a week at Podia, shout out to Podia great people and doing another ten to 15 hours on my own side. 

    Matt Ragland: So I was doing like that was one of my heavy sprint sessions where I was doing like 50, 60 hours. 

    Matt Ragland: But basically I'd work Monday through Friday and then I'd work most of Saturday, if not all of Saturday on my own projects. 

    Matt Ragland: So I was a one day a week dad in terms of being super present, not just the bookends of the day. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, okay, well something has to give. 

    Matt Ragland: And I talked to my wife a lot about this and it was a very gradual thing. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm not saying it has to be gradual, but having kids. 

    Matt Ragland: My wife worked part time, so we didn't have her full time income to fall back on or rely on. 

    Matt Ragland: So it was a much more gradual progression for me. 

    Matt Ragland: So to be realistic, to understand your financial commitments and that's the biggest thing. 

    Matt Ragland: I already talked a little bit about how much revenue generating, how much revenue and savings. 

    Matt Ragland: The other thing that I didn't understand well enough at the time was just like what our personal household run rate was, our burn rate, basically, to be all techy about it, how much money are we spending each month? 

    Matt Ragland: Because with my full time salary, with my side hustle income, and with my wife's part time income, we were putting money in savings. 

    Matt Ragland: We were doing all the things, but I didn't really notice how I really like ramit SETI's stuff and everything was automated. 

    Matt Ragland: So it's like the giving goes out and the spending goes out and investments go out and savings go out and taxes are automatically taken out, blah, blah, blah. 

    Matt Ragland: So it's like everything was running. 

    Matt Ragland: I didn't know how much everything cost, really. 

    Matt Ragland: And so when the side hustle, which was a nice side hustle, but not a full time income, when I started, I became aware of those costs really quickly. 

    Matt Ragland: And so that's like the biggest thing, looking back at that time and deciding know all of your numbers as well as you possibly can so that you can make the most informed decision about based on family dynamics, household income, household expenses. 

    Matt Ragland: Are you going to be able, are you going to be willing to cut back on things? 

    Matt Ragland: I wasn't initially just understanding those things. 

    Matt Ragland: It'll help you now.

    [00:08:21] Matt Ragland on Leaving a Full-Time Job to Pursue His Own Company

    Matt Ragland: This is the last thing, though, on this question. 

    Matt Ragland: And Romney left. 

    Matt Ragland: I can be a bit of a rambler. 

    Ramli John: Keep going, dude. 

    Matt Ragland: It does get to a point, and I eventually got to this point where I was like, I'm thinking about this too much. 

    Matt Ragland: I think I've told Spencer at Podia this, but it was getting to a point I was like, I am subconsciously not paying as much attention to Podia work and that's not fair to them. 

    Matt Ragland: So it's time. 

    Matt Ragland: And so I had made like that wasn't going on for a long time. 

    Matt Ragland: Clarification everyone. 

    Matt Ragland: I wasn't quiet. 

    Matt Ragland: Quitting. 

    Matt Ragland: All the milestones were being passed, all the boxes were being checked. 

    Matt Ragland: But there was like a moment just kind of dawned on me, a big project. 

    Matt Ragland: And I was like, I noticed the week following that it was different than just like, oh, we finished a big project. 

    Matt Ragland: And I had been thinking about it. 

    Matt Ragland: We finished a big project. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm just kind of burnt out. 

    Matt Ragland: I need to chill. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, oh, I don't want to think about this at all. 

    Matt Ragland: And I was like, it's time. 

    Ramli John: Interesting. 

    Ramli John: I think that energy piece is so important, I don't know who I learned it from. 

    Ramli John: Follow what gives you energy at that moment. 

    Ramli John: Obviously all the stuff that you talked about, the financial, making sure that makes sense and making sure that you understand your costs. 

    Ramli John: But as well. 

    Ramli John: I think that's the other piece though, when people ask me when is it time to move them on? 

    Ramli John: If it's like sucking your energy away from me. 

    Ramli John: I used to work for a larger organization early in my career. 

    Ramli John: I stuck it for like four or five years. 

    Ramli John: And I remember calling it a soul sucking please. 

    Ramli John: Because it's not the soul, it's the energy. 

    Ramli John: It's just sucking your energy, whatever you're doing there. 

    Matt Ragland: And you can tell, I would say pay attention to when it's sustained as well because we all have bad days or we could even have bad weeks. 

    Matt Ragland: But when you're already thinking about this and you notice that a sustained lack of energy and attention, I do believe that there's something significant there that's worth paying attention to. 

    Matt Ragland: And it could be that when you first notice, okay, it's time to start making more intentional plans. 

    Matt Ragland: And one of the things that I know we're going to talk about is like, okay, how do I start generating some revenue? 

    Matt Ragland: What are those first bits of experiments? 

    Matt Ragland: Revenue generating experiments that I can run that are going to give me an idea of, okay, is this feasible? 

    Ramli John: Yeah, that makes sense.

    [00:11:02] Discussion with Matt Ragland about his journey and upcoming projects

    Ramli John: So you started 2020. 

    Ramli John: You left podia. 

    Ramli John: Before that you were believe you were a ConvertKit. 

    Ramli John: How has that there's this Tweet I love. 

    Ramli John: You have this camera in front of you and you're like, first thing I'm. 

    Matt Ragland: Looking at right now. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah. 

    Ramli John: Matt Ragland. 

    Ramli John: Oh, that's cool. 

    Ramli John: That's really cool. 

    Matt Ragland: The same camera from Toy camera right there. 

    Ramli John: What camera is it? 

    Matt Ragland: Point at me right now. 

    Matt Ragland: It's an M 50. 

    Ramli John: Canon 50. 

    Ramli John: Right. 

    Matt Ragland: Nice. 

    Ramli John: I was thinking about it. 

    Ramli John: I ended up going for the E 6400. 

    Ramli John: The Sony. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: Probably going to be a Sony guy next camera purchase. 

    Matt Ragland: Makes sense. 

    Matt Ragland: I don't have enough Canon stuff to be like, I'm a Canon guy, I have a camera. 

    Matt Ragland: Right. 

    Ramli John: And the other thing, the lenses for each of the Canons, they don't fit with each other sometimes. 

    Ramli John: The N 15 eight lens, I don't think adapter.

    [00:11:55] Interview with Matt Ragland: The journey from solo creator to partnership at Good People Digital

    Ramli John: I'm curious how the ride has been. 

    Ramli John: How has that ride been since 2020? 

    Ramli John: I'm sure there's like a lot of us. 

    Matt Ragland: It's been a roller coaster. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm glad that I've done it because of all the things that I just talked about. 

    Matt Ragland: It was time. 

    Matt Ragland: It was time. 

    Matt Ragland: I'd been thinking about it for a while and it was time. 

    Matt Ragland: That said, it was because of also some of the financial realities. 

    Matt Ragland: My wife has worked less and I support her. 

    Matt Ragland: That has been the right decision for us. 

    Matt Ragland: That's something that we've done together. 

    Matt Ragland: But since then it's been whatever Matt can make that's the was it was fun because I really went into it. 

    Matt Ragland: The first six months of that first year in 2021 were probably the best six months that I had, and I've had other great months since. 

    Matt Ragland: But I was planning I did a Cohort launch, and that thing did well. 

    Matt Ragland: So basically I did probably 70K that first six months, maybe a little less, but around that. 

    Matt Ragland: And we rented an airbnb in Florida because for a month at the beach. 

    Matt Ragland: And that was great. 

    Matt Ragland: It was like, we're doing I don't have to get on any zoom calls, and I'm just spending half the day with my kids at the beach, which is like, it's a great memory, and I'm really glad we did that. 

    Matt Ragland: But looking back, that's where it's like, I spent a good bit, I made a good bit. 

    Matt Ragland: And then when I did the second launch of the Cohort that summer, I was like, here we go again. 

    Matt Ragland: This is going to be great. 

    Matt Ragland: It just like, no. 

    Matt Ragland: People were not interested in being productive in August 2021. 

    Matt Ragland: At least people that I know are on my email list, lots of great people on that email list. 

    Matt Ragland: But that just wasn't a time. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, oh, no, now what am I going to do? 

    Matt Ragland: Because I had basically budgeted a cash flow of expected air quotes for the listeners, an expected cash flow of like 100 and 2130. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, I can make it a chuckle. 

    Matt Ragland: And all of a sudden, that was like, OOH, it's going to be a hustle to get to 100. 

    Matt Ragland: Really going to have to work at this. 

    Matt Ragland: It might. 

    Matt Ragland: Oh, no. 

    Matt Ragland: So what I started doing at that point to supplement my shortfall in course revenue, was that I started doing more consulting and more implementation operations for surprise, surprise email and courses. 

    Matt Ragland: And so there was a little bit of like, I'm doing what I was doing at Podia and at ConvertKit, but just like, on my own. 

    Matt Ragland: But that network, those skills have continued to pay off for me in really big ways. 

    Matt Ragland: So basically the rest of the year goes on, and the timeline kind of speeds up after this. 

    Matt Ragland: But the first year was really key. 

    Matt Ragland: The year wraps up, and it was fine. 

    Matt Ragland: But I mentioned when I was doing those numbers initially, and people are like, oh, you did like 70K in the last 18 months of your side hustle. 

    Matt Ragland: Can't you do more if you're only spending ten to 15 hours a month or no, a week on this? 

    Matt Ragland: If you were spending 40 hours, maybe you're not going to quadruple, but definitely double. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, Hell yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: Definitely going to double. 

    Matt Ragland: Definitely did not double. 

    Matt Ragland: We made it, we're fine. 

    Matt Ragland: But it was a moment where I was like, okay, it's not smooth sailing. 

    Matt Ragland: I was definitely, like, towards the end of the year, I was dipping down in terms of getting worried about things, and I just want to tell the truth on it. 

    Matt Ragland: And I said, looking back, we were totally fine. 

    Matt Ragland: But it had not been like, this steady ascent to the top that I had envisioned in my mind. 

    Matt Ragland: The other reason about this is like, I really thought that my YouTube channel I expected that my YouTube channel was going to take off in and post 2020 post COVID as more people at home trying to be productive on their own. 

    Matt Ragland: And I've got all kinds of stuff that's going to be perfect for this, like self managed, self directed productivity. 

    Matt Ragland: And I said I did a lot of good work. 

    Matt Ragland: It just didn't always turn into money. 

    Matt Ragland: And we'll come back to that later. 

    Matt Ragland: And at the end of the year, I had made almost as much money consulting and doing email course operations as I had on the actual courses that I made. 

    Matt Ragland: And I reconnected with another former ConvertKit colleague named Daryl Vesterfeld, who was the first head of growth at ConvertKit, and he was running a branding marketing agency mostly geared towards creators, but would do other projects as well. 

    Matt Ragland: I'd worked with a bunch of authors like Daryl has worked with Gretchen Rubin, and he was on the early team at Story Brand, like Donald Miller. 

    Matt Ragland: So he was, I think, director of marketing for Don when that was all taking off. 

    Matt Ragland: So super smart guy in addition to our ConvertKit overlap. 

    Matt Ragland: So I was just telling him my story and he is like, oh, do you want to do more of the course and email part? 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, kind of seems like that's the direction it's going. 

    Matt Ragland: And he's, well, like, how about you come work with me? 

    Matt Ragland: Why don't you be a partner at Good People Digital at GPD and you can run newsletter, email operations and courses for our clients, because I haven't been doing as much of that. 

    Matt Ragland: I want to get back into it, but I'm running all these other parts of the agency in the business. 

    Matt Ragland: He's the founder, CEO. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, you go run this part of the business and work with the team. 

    Matt Ragland: We'll run it together. 

    Matt Ragland: And there are a couple of other great partners there as well. 

    Matt Ragland: Matt Gartland's one of them. 

    Matt Ragland: Tim Grahl is another. 

    Matt Ragland: And it has been great to work through that with them, to have more of a team to work with. 

    Matt Ragland: And also, I mentioned this to you before the show or like, right at the beginning. 

    Matt Ragland: I do feel like even though I'm creating less content right now than I was at really any time of the past five or six years, I haven't been doing as much YouTube. 

    Matt Ragland: I do feel like what I'm working on right now with our clients and with GPD, good People Digital is the culmination of everything that I've been doing for the past ten years, and that includes starting my own blog, starting my own email list on AWeber in 2012. 

    Matt Ragland: Don't use AWeber. 

    Matt Ragland: If it even exists anymore, don't do it. 

    Matt Ragland: I've been setting up email lists for over ten years now. 

    Matt Ragland: And then of course, my experience at ConvertKit, the network that I've been fortunate to build, and a lot of great people to work with. 

    Matt Ragland: So if that's the meme of how it started, how's it going? 

    Matt Ragland: It's a little bit different than what I expected, but I do feel really good about my decisions and I think something that everyone should take into account when it comes to decisions like this is thinking is being willing to follow the vision that you have, even if the path is a little different than you expect.

    [00:20:07] 42 Agency: Helping B2B SaaS Companies Build a Predictable Revenue Engine

    Ramli John: Before I continue, I want to thank the sponsor for this episode, 42 Agency. 

    Ramli John: Now, when you're in scale up growth mode and you have to hit your KPIs, the pressure is on to deliver demos and sign ups. 

    Ramli John: And it's a lot to handle. 

    Ramli John: There's demand, gen, email sequences, rev ops and more. 

    Ramli John: And that's where 42 Agency, founded by my good friend Camille Rexton, can help you. 

    Ramli John: They're a strategic partner that's helped B, two B SaaS companies like Profit to Wall, Teamwork, Sprout, Social and Hubdoc to build a predictable revenue engine. 

    Ramli John: If you're looking for performance experts and creatives to solve your marketing growth problems today and help you build the foundations for the future, look no further. 

    Ramli John: Visit 42 to talk to a strategist right now to learn how you can build a high efficiency revenue engine.

    [00:20:53] Ramli John Talks About Riverside FM - A Podcast Recording Tool

    Ramli John: Thank you. 

    Ramli John: Also to sponsor for this episode, Riverside FM. 

    Ramli John: Riverside FM is my Goto video podcast recording tool. 

    Ramli John: This whole show is recorded on it. 

    Ramli John: What I love about it is that it's almost like being in a virtual studio, which makes it possible to record and edit at the highest quality possible. 

    Ramli John: Riverside IDFM also records locally for myself and my guests, so if anyone has unstable internet connection, I can still get studio quality audio and video recording. 

    Ramli John: And now with their AI engine, I can accurately transcribe my recordings as well as get vertical videos for Instagram, reels, TikTok and YouTube shorts automatically using the new feature called Magic Clips. 

    Ramli John: Don't take my word for it. 

    Ramli John: You can go to Riverside FM right now to try out for free or find the link in the show note and description.

    [00:21:37] Ramli John and Matt Ragland Discuss Their Professional Paths and Career Growth

    Ramli John: Anyway, let's get back to our episode. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, that's true. 

    Ramli John: That makes sense. 

    Ramli John: There's this police proverb that says that if you're given two paths, always choose the harder one because that would make you grow the most. 

    Ramli John: And that really stuck with me in many ways. 

    Ramli John: I mean, the path you described is definitely not the easiest, but I do believe that things get set up for you or for people towards what's next. 

    Ramli John: I'm not sure. 

    Ramli John: Maybe we're talking to Flux. 

    Ramli John: I really do believe that, yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: And there are also things like I was talking to some people in a mastermind that I'm in I was talking to them about this last week, is that doing all of this has taught me things about myself and how I work and how I react to people that I never could have learned if I wasn't willing to take this path. 

    Matt Ragland: There's even still stuff that I'm doing this month that like, ah, this thing that I did at ConvertKit, this thing I probably did at AppSumo, this thing I did at Podia, and now this thing that I'm doing with a partner. 

    Matt Ragland: It finally had this light bulb, and I was like, it's that thing that I'm doing. 

    Matt Ragland: And I have to stop doing that thing and I have to do this other thing differently. 

    Matt Ragland: And I don't know if I ever would have figured that out without going through the bit of a roller coaster that I have. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, that makes sense.

    [00:23:08] Seven Steps to Making Seven Figures with an Email List

    Ramli John: One of the things that you have put together, I feel like one of the lessons that you've taken and now formulating good People digital is around this tweet that you shared around seven steps to making seven figures with an email list. 

    Ramli John: I want to dig to that. 

    Ramli John: That's what we're really going to be digging into today. 

    Ramli John: And the very first thing, 20 minutes in, totally fine. 

    Matt Ragland: Now that philosophy hour is over. 

    Ramli John: It's leading up to this, the longest. 

    Matt Ragland: Intro I don't with YouTube parenting philosophy. 

    Ramli John: I love it, but I don't want to dig through all seven at one go. 

    Ramli John: I want to do it in chunks because that's the way you suggested. 

    Ramli John: Especially, this is a great primer for people who are thinking marketers who are thinking about doing their own thing. 

    Ramli John: This is something that they should be doing before, especially the first three around, really thinking about content distribution and referrals. 

    Ramli John: That's the first three out of that seven. 

    Ramli John: Curious. 

    Ramli John: I understand it, but maybe other people understand it. 

    Ramli John: Why those three first? 

    Ramli John: Other than like, oh, I should just start vising from the very which will be the very bottom we'll talk about in a bit. 

    Matt Ragland: The distinction in that as I hold my tiny pencil, the distinction in that is if you already have especially like if you're in sales or some kind of like biz dev role, you probably at that point can skip this a little bit to say, hey, I'm doing this thing now. 

    Matt Ragland: You know what I do? 

    Matt Ragland: Let's do it together. 

    Matt Ragland: Which is basically how my consulting started after my second cohort launch fell a little flat and I was like, I need to make 20 grand in three months. 

    Matt Ragland: How can I do that? 

    Matt Ragland: So I was just able to reach out to people and of course, I had been creating content at that point. 

    Matt Ragland: But the reason that I say content distribution and referrals first is because if you are doing that online, twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok, Reels, whatever it is, depending on the platform, depending on the channel newsletter, which we'll also talk about, you are publicly establishing expertise that people can point to or check in on you with. 

    Matt Ragland: This is one thing, unless you're working for one of the fang companies or you're at this popular spot. 

    Matt Ragland: If I wanted to work with you, and I went to this landing page that you have set up on Card, shout out to AJ at card. 

    Matt Ragland: Love your product. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's just like, so and so worked at these places, and now you can hire me for thousands of dollars. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm like, Nope, not going to do. 

    Matt Ragland: And but if I see that you're posting thoughtful pieces on Twitter or you are regularly sharing concepts on LinkedIn, one of my friends that does this extremely well is Brendan Hufford. 

    Matt Ragland: Brendan's awesome. 

    Ramli John: I had him on the show. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, Brendan's. 

    Matt Ragland: Fantastic. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: And Amanda as well, who we've already talked about. 

    Matt Ragland: If I was thinking about hiring that person for the thing that they're good at, then it's not just like going to their website. 

    Matt Ragland: Anyone can set up a website. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm not saying it's easy to set up a website, even though it's gotten pretty easy. 

    Matt Ragland: And you can put single set up copy, like, here's my stuff and here's a couple of case studies. 

    Matt Ragland: You should still do all those things. 

    Matt Ragland: But I want to see and I was just talking to a coaching client about this today. 

    Matt Ragland: I want to see if I go look you up on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, whatever, I want to see 30 pieces of content, probably minimum. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm not going to read them all, but I just want to see that you've been thinking about this and talking about this, and I'll scan through a few and say, like, okay, I have a feel for this person's personality and style, how they think about things. 

    Matt Ragland: I can start to imagine what it would be like to work with you. 

    Matt Ragland: Whereas if I just go to your website that you've tossed up with a couple of pages during a weekend sprint, still good for you. 

    Matt Ragland: You should do that. 

    Matt Ragland: But that doesn't tell me nearly enough about whether or not I'm going to be interested in hiring you. 

    Matt Ragland: Because there's also, like I mentioned, the fang companies. 

    Matt Ragland: There's also plenty of people say, ex Google. 

    Matt Ragland: Right, okay. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, I was thinking the same. 

    Ramli John: Just because the people who work at these big companies, they might not be good at doing what you need help with, just because maybe they're doing something very specific really well, like pressing a button really well, or something else. 

    Matt Ragland: Great button pushers. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, exactly. 

    Ramli John: That makes sense. 

    Matt Ragland: So that's why I say content is just making the thing. 

    Matt Ragland: Distribution is getting it onto the platforms. 

    Matt Ragland: That's why Social has I feel like there was a stretch, maybe, like pre COVID, where social was not great for distribution, and I think that it was less focused. 

    Matt Ragland: This is all like, my own social bubble, my own echo chamber of Twitter and LinkedIn. 

    Matt Ragland: But it feels like to me I don't know how you remember those days, but Twitter back then seemed a lot more random. 

    Matt Ragland: And then when threads took over Twitter, and I remember talking to my friend Blake Burge about this. 

    Matt Ragland: Shout out to Blake, great guy, that he said he was talking to me. 

    Matt Ragland: He was doing, like, a review of my Twitter. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, you talk about way too much random stuff. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, it's me. 

    Matt Ragland: It's my personality. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, no. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, you talk about newsletters and courses and that's. 

    Ramli John: It interesting. 

    Matt Ragland: It's like, maybe you can say something about football on the weekends, but it's like, one thing and it's Go team. 

    Matt Ragland: It's not like he's like, people come to your Twitter. 

    Matt Ragland: If you want people to hire you or buy from you via Twitter or LinkedIn, that when they go there. 

    Matt Ragland: That's all they should see. 

    Matt Ragland: That's all they should see. 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: I feel like what you're maybe starting to change a little bit, but I still feel like that's very much. 

    Matt Ragland: Like, if you're doing that, then again, people come to your socials to figure out if they want to work with you. 

    Matt Ragland: What are you saying? 

    Matt Ragland: What are you putting out there consistently that lets them feel more convinced that you're the right person. 

    Ramli John: To me, what that really leads up to is about building trust. 

    Ramli John: Imagine if absolutely. 

    Ramli John: You're trying to hire a programmer. 

    Ramli John: Maybe that's not a good example, but you're trying to hire a designer who it's much easier to hire somebody who has great behance and a place they've done some designs that you want for yourself rather than somebody who hasn't. 

    Ramli John: It's the same here, where you're sharing your thoughts and your idea, and that builds trust that this guy, Matt or Ramley or whoever, Amanda or Brendan, they know what they're talking about if I'm going to try to hire them for SEO, because that's what they talk about on Twitter and LinkedIn, and it's something they care about. 

    Ramli John: Really? 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: And you look at it and say, Matt, just us. 

    Matt Ragland: We've known each other for a little while. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, I've had three different podcast interviews because of that seven Steps tweet. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, hey, why don't you come on and talk about that great. 

    Ramli John: That's cool. 

    Ramli John: It opens up opportunities, too.

    [00:30:56] The Art of Building an Impactful Personal Brand: A Conversation with Matt Ragland

    Ramli John: I think that's the other thing that opens up. 

    Ramli John: Getting invited to podcasts or getting invited to speak even at conferences. 

    Ramli John: Right? 

    Ramli John: Stuff that you shared. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, if anyone's listening and they want to fly me out somewhere to speak. 

    Matt Ragland: But this is what we're talking about, though. 

    Matt Ragland: It's true. 

    Matt Ragland: This is the culmination of it. 

    Matt Ragland: I have been tweeting about this for a while. 

    Matt Ragland: You write about marketing and positioning and other pieces of that niche of that topic, but this is how it goes. 

    Matt Ragland: I write this tweet, I come on Ramley's podcast. 

    Matt Ragland: Someone hears this and like, oh, maybe I would like to work with Matt on my newsletter or my course. 

    Matt Ragland: I get a client out of this. 

    Matt Ragland: Someone else listens to, like, hey, Matt can come talk about this on my podcast, or. 

    Matt Ragland: This conference. 

    Matt Ragland: But it's all like you're just in a very like I was talking the same client I was talking to earlier today is like it's like moneyball in a sense. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm just trying to get on base. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm trying to get on base every day as often as I can that one of these is going to turn into it's venture capital for your own ideas. 

    Matt Ragland: That how many of these can I put out that I'm going to make a living on a few ideas that pop, but I have to put a lot of them out there. 

    Ramli John: That makes sense. 

    Ramli John: I feel like this is very foundational, like Marketing 101. 

    Ramli John: How do you keep yourself, your personal brand top of mind when they're thinking about this case newsletter and helping creators and then when somebody thinks about that, it's like, oh Matt, it's up there. 

    Ramli John: If people are thinking about content or content marketing or strategy, amanda gets up there. 

    Ramli John: Or if they're thinking about know like Brendan Hufford is up there. 

    Ramli John: And really that's what this is building. 

    Ramli John: I hate the word personal brand, but yes, you're building this notion that you are the guy for X Century with this. 

    Matt Ragland: Well, this is where the whole now it feels like a meme on Twitter. 

    Matt Ragland: Like the x guy. 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: I love it when women will put like the ex guy, the newsletter guy. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's just so tongue in cheek and fantastic. 

    Matt Ragland: But that's where that came from. 

    Matt Ragland: And it goes back to being disciplined on your topic and on your curation of the content that you're putting out. 

    Matt Ragland: When someone goes to your profile that's what they should get from you is a deeper understanding of this is what I do and this is how I can help you. 

    Matt Ragland: Your newsletter is a deeper extension of that. 

    Matt Ragland: I still think that I have a long way to go personally in making myself the clear choice for newsletters. 

    Matt Ragland: Now, some of that is just different personalities, different styles, different focuses. 

    Matt Ragland: Like Matt McGarry is great at paid acquisition of ads or paid ads for newsletters. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm not good at that. 

    Matt Ragland: I have no interest in it because there are better people at it. 

    Matt Ragland: So I'm not going to necessarily go down that sub niche. 

    Matt Ragland: But the other part of this and this is where I think I know I'm still learning and developing and what is the unique voice or style that I can apply to this topic. 

    Matt Ragland: And sometimes it's just a framing mechanism. 

    Matt Ragland: Like Tiago Forte is my latest all time of this example with his Building a Second Brain. 

    Matt Ragland: And one just amazing name and title. 

    Matt Ragland: Like Building a Second Brain is just so clear and interesting. 

    Matt Ragland: And I remember listening to him talk about on a podcast, he's like, yeah, I didn't think it was a great name at the time, but I just went with it. 

    Matt Ragland: And you hear all this stuff about like, well, we got to be really careful about what we're saying. 

    Matt Ragland: It's like building a second brain. 

    Matt Ragland: Sounds nice. 

    Matt Ragland: He just falls into it to hear him tell it. 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: Now, I'm sure that it's a subconscious culmination of a lot of things that he had been learning up to that time. 

    Matt Ragland: But I digress. 

    Matt Ragland: We've had enough philosophy and subconscious talk so far. 

    Matt Ragland: But finding out what is your special sauce? 

    Matt Ragland: What is the unique thing that you put onto this that are going to make people think it's about more than just the information? 

    Matt Ragland: It has to be more about the information. 

    Matt Ragland: It has to be about the story and the style that you put into it. 

    Matt Ragland: And I think I'm still learning that and kind of leaning into what that is, because the people who can do that best, those are the people like yes, that person, that thing. 

    Matt Ragland: That's when you know, that's when you know, like, Jack Butcher did an amazing job with this with visualized value. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, how can I take this mental model, this concept, or even this quote, and turn it into something visual? 

    Matt Ragland: Well, that was like, he did that. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's like, who does visualized artwork, business concepts or personal development? 

    Matt Ragland: You're like, oh, there's Jack, of course. 

    Matt Ragland: And he was really intentional about that. 

    Matt Ragland: So I do think there's a lot of value, no pun intended, in spending time thinking about those things. 

    Matt Ragland: But the balance that I would give to it goes back to what we talked about at the beginning of this, is you can spin your wheels thinking about what the specificities of your offer are for so long that you don't get started. 

    Matt Ragland: But it is still really important to think about those things over time so that you can endure, you can last and grow without feeling like you're just on this, like, well, I'm going to get stuff done, hamster wheel. 

    Matt Ragland: Because that's one of the things that I've struggled with. 

    Matt Ragland: Well, I'm the person that you asked me, I'm going to skip ahead a little bit. 

    Matt Ragland: What's my power up or what's my marketing superpower? 

    Matt Ragland: It's the showing up. 

    Matt Ragland: It's doing the work. 

    Matt Ragland: It's the consistency. 

    Matt Ragland: Those are the things that I will do. 

    Matt Ragland: I will endure. 

    Matt Ragland: I will outlast. 

    Matt Ragland: Right now, this is like the Tweak of is like, if I was better at positioning. 

    Matt Ragland: This is Lily's story I'm telling myself right now. 

    Matt Ragland: If I'm better at positioning, if I was better at sales, if I was a little braver in this particular element of the business, could I level up much faster than thinking it's going to be? 

    Matt Ragland: I'm just going to show up long enough and I'm going to win? 

    Matt Ragland: I still think that's true, but could I go a little faster if I change these things? 

    Matt Ragland: And I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure what all those things are, but I'm much more aware of that as a reality and a possibility than I ever have been. 

    Ramli John: I feel like there's so much to unpack. 

    Ramli John: There one thing that really stuck with me, though, is that I think often people have fear of just creating that content and distributing and getting referrals. 

    Ramli John: And sometimes people over, and this is my problem. 

    Ramli John: Sometimes I overthink things, and sometimes the journey just get started. 

    Ramli John: Just take that first step. 

    Ramli John: Just get that first step and continue to listen. 

    Ramli John: Trust your intuition. 

    Ramli John: Have people around you that can give you guidance and support you'll figure out that path is exactly what this is where we're going into philosophy again. 

    Matt Ragland: There you go. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, I love that.

    [00:38:49] Matt Ragland on content creation strategies

    Ramli John: So that's the first part. 

    Ramli John: I want to get to the second part, the next three. 

    Ramli John: And it's really about I see it more around Monetization. 

    Ramli John: And the next three steps is around membership and super exclusion. 

    Ramli John: Impulse Products is $100 or less and commitment products. 

    Ramli John: I'm curious that might be easier focused than advising and coaching. 

    Ramli John: Why those three? 

    Ramli John: I'm curious about the next abaco you. 

    Matt Ragland: Built so you can come at this from either direction. 

    Matt Ragland: And I have a tweet up somewhere so easy to find things on Twitter. 

    Matt Ragland: I have a tweet up somewhere that is an interpretation of my friend Brian Harris, who he's rarely on Twitter anymore. 

    Matt Ragland: He just turned 40 a couple of weeks ago. 

    Matt Ragland: Happy birthday, Brian. 

    Matt Ragland: And he had a Hershey Kiss model of Monetization that I thought was really interesting. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's basically the inverted process that I mentioned in those seven steps. 

    Matt Ragland: The seven steps that I'm talking about right there cover a much more overtime scalable and more passive income related. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm developing products to talk about jack again or anything that has to do with zero marginal costs, build once, sell twice type of thinking. 

    Matt Ragland: It's like, okay, if I can keep doing this. 

    Matt Ragland: But if you flip it on its head and this is what I know you're asking about and I think is really valuable, especially for people who are looking to make more money sooner, who doesn't want to do that? 

    Matt Ragland: This is the part that you clip out and you say, like Matt says, you can make more money sooner with these three simple steps. 

    Matt Ragland: So number one, I don't know if there's three, but if you start with advising and consulting one, it's much easier to find one person to pay you $5,000 than to find 100 people to pay you $50. 

    Matt Ragland: It's just one person now. 

    Matt Ragland: You have to be able to sell. 

    Matt Ragland: And that is a whole other thing to just say to someone on a call, will you give me $5,000? 

    Matt Ragland: Not in those many words. 

    Matt Ragland: That's not a good closing line, but that's essentially what you're saying. 

    Matt Ragland: But it still is easier to find one person to do that, to find 100 people to give you $50. 

    Matt Ragland: If you do that and you can find a couple of people like that to be your clients, then it starts this waterfall effect. 

    Matt Ragland: You can also think of it like hershey Kiss or a triangle. 

    Matt Ragland: And so we're starting at the top. 

    Matt Ragland: And then as you move down, you think like, okay, as I've been coaching, advising, consulting these people on this thing that I'm good at, let's say newsletter growth or development or whatever, then I'm consciously thinking the whole time, what are as I've worked with two or three people, what are the common things that between my experience and the direct coaching that I'm giving to these people? 

    Matt Ragland: What keeps coming up? 

    Matt Ragland: What are the seven steps? 

    Matt Ragland: What are the ten steps? 

    Matt Ragland: What are the things that I'm talking to everyone about? 

    Matt Ragland: Okay, now I can do group coaching because I know everyone needs to do these ten things. 

    Matt Ragland: Great. 

    Matt Ragland: So now I've gone from $5,000 client but only a couple to $3,000 group coaching. 

    Matt Ragland: But I can work with five or six people at a time. 

    Matt Ragland: You're basically like a premium cohort model. 

    Matt Ragland: Speaking of which, after that, then you say, like, okay, much more structured, and I'm going to charge 1500 for this cohort and try and get 20 or 30 people in. 

    Matt Ragland: Great. 

    Matt Ragland: My friend Justin Moore did this with Creator Wizard. 

    Ramli John: I saw that. 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: I think his first cohort of Creator Wizard had like eight people. 

    Matt Ragland: And this was three years ago. 

    Matt Ragland: And his last one, which I think was like his eight cohort could be more or less than that. 

    Matt Ragland: He capped it at 100 spots. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, no more. 

    Matt Ragland: No more. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah. 

    Matt Ragland: And then to bring up Tiago again, like, Tiago now is 1000 people. 

    Matt Ragland: Sign up for building a second Brain. 

    Matt Ragland: So now we're down to cohort, let's say 1500. 

    Matt Ragland: You don't have to cut the price in half every time. 

    Matt Ragland: You don't have to cut the price in half every time. 

    Matt Ragland: But it's like a good rule of thumb, let's just say. 

    Matt Ragland: And then you go, now we're going down. 

    Matt Ragland: So everything that you've learned in the prior level gets applied to the lower level. 

    Matt Ragland: So what did I learn in one on one coaching that I can give to group coaching? 

    Matt Ragland: What am I learning in group coaching that I can apply to a cohort? 

    Matt Ragland: Now, what did I do in a cohort that I can now turn that same set of lessons into a self guided course that people can buy anytime? 

    Matt Ragland: And in that self guided course, what are like, the ten, absolute, five absolute essential things that everyone has to do?

    [00:43:39] Product Pricing and Value with Matt Ragland

    Matt Ragland: Well, that's your starter package, and it's $47. 

    Matt Ragland: So now I have a $47 impulse product. 

    Matt Ragland: I have a, say, $247 expansion of the Impulse product into the self guided course. 

    Matt Ragland: I have $1,000 commitment product, which is you're going to have to show up to a cohort for four to six weeks and do this together. 

    Matt Ragland: And even now, I can start going back up as well as like, okay, now if I want this is where I initially had it as advising, consulting, private as needed. 

    Matt Ragland: Because if you start from the bottom. 

    Matt Ragland: Then you go there. 

    Matt Ragland: Start from the bottom. 

    Matt Ragland: Now we're here. 

    Matt Ragland: Then you would look at and say, hopefully I'm making enough money on the very constrained, very time specific cohorts, plus the evergreen sales of the self guided course, plus the like, I just signed up for your newsletter, and this looks super interesting, and I like what Matt has to talk about. 

    Matt Ragland: And so many people have told me so many good things about Matt. 

    Matt Ragland: Yay. 

    Matt Ragland: We love Matt. 

    Matt Ragland: Let's give him $27 when I sign up to his email list. 

    Matt Ragland: That sounds great. 

    Matt Ragland: Cool. 

    Matt Ragland: So hopefully all of that is all going so well that I'm keeping coaching private. 

    Matt Ragland: At that point. 

    Matt Ragland: If we're starting in the other direction, it's application, I have to talk to you and be like, I would like to talk to this person. 

    Matt Ragland: I would like to help them, instead of it being like, who wants to give me money? 

    Matt Ragland: And hopefully this will work out, because we've all been there. 

    Matt Ragland: You're probably at some point, because that's where I was, let's say three years ago, I was like, I would start with coaching, and I would do coaching. 

    Matt Ragland: I would not charge $5,000. 

    Matt Ragland: I was too afraid to charge, like, that amount of money. 

    Matt Ragland: Another little quick aside about that. 

    Matt Ragland: In terms of pricing, it's really hard for you to charge, at least for most people. 

    Matt Ragland: It was for me. 

    Matt Ragland: It's hard to charge an amount of money for a thing that you offer that you're not willing to pay for something else. 

    Matt Ragland: And that doesn't mean you need to go out and pay someone $50,000 to be your coach, even though if you are that person, please contact me. 

    Matt Ragland: You can give me the $50,000 to feel like you're able to charge that we can all just have this big coaching network effect. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, I like that, but it is hard. 

    Matt Ragland: When I started, some of that was just like, I hadn't been in consulting before. 

    Matt Ragland: It's not like I worked at Bain or, like, what, 500K? 

    Matt Ragland: Sure. 

    Matt Ragland: I don't even know if that's right. 

    Matt Ragland: But I remember I did do, like, a consulting hour with someone who was like, yeah, we're from Bain. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, Damn it, I charged this person, like, $500. 

    Matt Ragland: I should have done way more than that. 

    Ramli John: Definitely the budget. 

    Matt Ragland: But it's hard if you don't have experience in that, if you aren't able to say, like, I would pay $5,000 for a coach. 

    Matt Ragland: It's hard when you're pitching someone on coaching to be like, oh, yeah, you should pay me $5,000. 

    Matt Ragland: There's a dissonance here we are in philosophy again. 

    Matt Ragland: There's a dissonance between what you're willing to do and what you're asking someone else to. 

    Matt Ragland: For most people that you can't, it's too hard to do that in the moment. 

    Matt Ragland: So you're like, I don't know, $500. 

    Matt Ragland: Mr. 

    Matt Ragland: Person from Bain who went to Yale, and he's like, what? 

    Matt Ragland: I spend that on Kale watches, probably. 

    Matt Ragland: Kale, yeah, I spend that on coffee every week. 

    Ramli John: The other thing, that the advantage of starting from the bottom, going that shout out to Drake. 

    Ramli John: He's from Toronto. 

    Ramli John: That's where I'm based. 

    Matt Ragland: See, I'm very hip. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, the 23 year old that I work with, hey, Tim. 

    Matt Ragland: Whenever I make a hip hop reference, he just stares at me. 

    Matt Ragland: I was like, I did a Jay Z line a couple of weeks ago, and he's like I was like, well, this is when I was a youth myself. 

    Matt Ragland: This was a really back in a really hot song, brother. 

    Matt Ragland: Sorry. 

    Ramli John: That makes sense. 

    Ramli John: The other advantage of that, especially if people are still working full time, is that hopefully those things, the evergreen stuff and maybe the course is that it's not taking up. 

    Ramli John: Like, you're not trading time for money, essentially. 

    Ramli John: You're not eating up your balance of life that you mentioned earlier, and you can test out the waters and figure out what works before going much larger pricing. 

    Matt Ragland: What I'm doing with clients now, this is just like an up to date version of this is a version of a presell, very low lift cohort as validation of a product. 

    Matt Ragland: So we are kind of like mixing those two worlds together. 

    Matt Ragland: It's not a full on cohort. 

    Matt Ragland: It's also, like, not doing an entire it's also not doing an entire consulting offer. 

    Matt Ragland: It's saying, I have this idea. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm going to presell it for, let's say 100, $200, depending on what you eventually want to raise the price to. 

    Matt Ragland: And then doing not a course, just a series of live presentations. 

    Matt Ragland: And that's it. 

    Matt Ragland: The only thing you have to put together is a series is basically one really long PowerPoint. 

    Matt Ragland: And that's what you present over the course of, let's say, like, three meetings over six weeks. 

    Matt Ragland: Not six weeks, like six total meetings. 

    Matt Ragland: Nathan Barry's doing this right now. 

    Matt Ragland: I got an email from Nathan this morning, said, like, I'm doing a creator the pilot project. 

    Matt Ragland: He's like, I'm doing this creator flywheel thing is two weeks. 

    Matt Ragland: And maybe it's three weeks. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm going to show up three times, and some of them are going to be hot seats, which are wonderful, but also you don't have to get ready for anything when you're leading a hot seat. 

    Matt Ragland: Just, like, respond to people talking. 

    Matt Ragland: It's great, and it's your experience that they're paying for. 

    Matt Ragland: And so almost everyone that when we work with clients that don't have courses yet for us to promote on their behalf because they're living life and running other parts of the business, this is always what we do. 

    Matt Ragland: Like, okay, this is going to be a two, maybe three week presentation, only cohort, and you're going to validate it, make $5,000, and then we decide what to do from there. 

    Matt Ragland: You could just do that whole same thing again next month. 

    Matt Ragland: But that's like the updated version of this is I do think you should be live, and I do think you should obviously charge money for it. 

    Matt Ragland: It should be a compressed window, because the other thing that you'll get here besides money and validation is you'll have actual customers, you'll have testimonials, and you'll have feedback. 

    Matt Ragland: You'll be able to have those moments. 

    Matt Ragland: And this is the other nice thing about being Live. 

    Matt Ragland: If you can handle it, some people can't handle it, and that's okay. 

    Matt Ragland: But if you can do that, and if you're thinking you can't, you probably can just you got to do it. 

    Matt Ragland: But you'll be able to present something. 

    Matt Ragland: This was always huge for me. 

    Matt Ragland: You'll be able to present something and see how people react to it, and you have to be an engaging presenter. 

    Matt Ragland: That's a whole other thing.

    [00:50:47] Creating Cohort-Based Courses with Matt Ragland

    Matt Ragland: But when you see how people react to it, you're like, oh, I thought this thing was really important. 

    Matt Ragland: That doesn't mean it's not important, but it either means, like, you have to reposition it, or maybe it isn't as important as you thought. 

    Matt Ragland: And then you'll see other things that you just kind of say, and people are like, OOH, tell me more about that. 

    Matt Ragland: You're like, oh, I didn't even think that mattered, but it's really interesting. 

    Matt Ragland: And then you're obviously going to say stuff like, this is really going to slap. 

    Matt Ragland: I shouldn't have said that. 

    Matt Ragland: Now I'm trying too hard. 

    Matt Ragland: This is going to be really good, right? 

    Matt Ragland: This is going to be really good. 

    Matt Ragland: And you say and people are like, that's really good. 

    Matt Ragland: You're like, yeah, that is really good. 

    Matt Ragland: I'm really going to emphasize that more. 

    Matt Ragland: And you can only get that when you're on Live with people. 

    Ramli John: It's true. 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Ramli John: You also see the questions around people might have that they get confused about, that you can craft and hone even more in future iterations as well, which is interesting. 

    Ramli John: When you're saying that it's compressed, do you suggest, I really love this idea, because now that recording could be your pre recorded course that you can sell, right? 

    Ramli John: Which you did live, right? 

    Ramli John: Yeah. 

    Ramli John: So now you got it. 

    Matt Ragland: You just sell that recordings. 

    Ramli John: I love this strategy. 

    Ramli John: Exactly. 

    Ramli John: What do you suggest? 

    Ramli John: Like an hour, those compressed sessions, six of them throughout, like, a few weeks, like an hour each? 

    Matt Ragland: Is that what you leave time for? 

    Matt Ragland: A Q and A at the end of each one? 

    Matt Ragland: Only go over one key outcome every time. 

    Matt Ragland: So kind of think about what are the five, six, seven steps, 1 hour? 

    Matt Ragland: You can go twice a week. 

    Matt Ragland: I wouldn't go more than three times per week. 

    Matt Ragland: And if you think you're going to go more than that, then just make it a Monday through Friday, one week, and say, like, we're showing up noon, teaching at noon. 

    Matt Ragland: We're showing up. 

    Matt Ragland: And you just do that and then have a couple of Q A only sessions where like, okay, we've talked about this whole thing. 

    Matt Ragland: Like, a friend of mine, Miles Snyder, he's doing a cooking cohort, right? 

    Matt Ragland: Now, or he's getting ready to start it. 

    Matt Ragland: And what he's doing is he does three sessions per week. 

    Matt Ragland: And the first one is, here's the cooking technique that we're going over. 

    Matt Ragland: The second session is like, here's the dish that we're making. 

    Matt Ragland: And then the third session is like, hey, it's kind of like cooking together, but that's just like a Q and A session. 

    Matt Ragland: Like as you're putting this together, as you've been trying, let's have A-Q-A session about it. 

    Matt Ragland: So he does three per week, and I think he's going for like a month. 

    Matt Ragland: So a little bit more intensive, but he's also validated it at this point. 

    Ramli John: This is such a good strategy. 

    Ramli John: The other thing that I'm really thinking about is that once you have those, there's something that a guy named Russell Brunson, I've read some of his books. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's like a buyer's buyer Secrets. 

    Ramli John: Right? 

    Ramli John: Like a buyer clickfunnel trusts. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, right. 

    Ramli John: He said the buyer is a buyer. 

    Ramli John: And when they buy that 100, $200 cohort that could turn into a coaching or advising, especially if they need exactly. 

    Ramli John: Which is exactly what leads to the last step, essentially. 

    Ramli John: Which how do you find clients? 

    Ramli John: You find clients who have already bought from you. 

    Matt Ragland: They've already paid you money, they already. 

    Ramli John: Trust you, they've already given you a credit card, they've already opened up their wallet to you, and now they're more likely to pay you 515, 20 grand just because they've built that trust up to you, essentially. 

    Matt Ragland: Exactly. 

    Matt Ragland: So that's why we're building initially in something that's a little bit more controlled and then letting people experience at a more accessible price point. 

    Matt Ragland: Not everyone has to do that, but experience it at a more accessible price point and then you can grow. 

    Matt Ragland: Because one of the great things about coaching is how you can just do it. 

    Matt Ragland: You're the expert and you can just do it. 

    Matt Ragland: You should have a plan. 

    Matt Ragland: Yes. 

    Matt Ragland: But you can only have so many clients at once unless you turn into a coaching certifier. 

    Matt Ragland: But you can only have so many clients at once. 

    Matt Ragland: You can have as many course students as that's the zero marginal cost of content. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, love that.

    [00:55:08] Seven Steps to Making Seven Figures for the Email List

    Ramli John: I just want to recap the seven steps to making seven figures for the email list. 

    Ramli John: Content is first, distribution, referral, membership number five is Impulse. 

    Ramli John: Product number six is Commitment Products. 

    Ramli John: And then Seven is coaching, advising, service. 

    Ramli John: Essentially, that's the seven steps you put together. 

    Matt Ragland: So let me change that a little bit as I've updated. 

    Ramli John: Okay. 

    Matt Ragland: Really? 

    Matt Ragland: Distribution and referrals are the same thing. 

    Matt Ragland: Referrals is just a type of distribution. 

    Matt Ragland: You're distributing it through referrals.

    [00:55:39] Sponsorships: An Essential Component for Companies

    Matt Ragland: And the reason I bring this up is that the thing that I would add in I'm just going to say this, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole. 

    Matt Ragland: So we've gone down lots of rabbit holes is sponsorships. 

    Matt Ragland: Sponsorships should have been, of course, like you're getting sponsors. 

    Ramli John: You should get sponsors. 

    Matt Ragland: So blah, blah, blah. 

    Matt Ragland: Sign up for the ConvertKit Sponsor Network or my friend John at Backyard Ventures. 

    Matt Ragland: Shout out to John. 

    Matt Ragland: But get some sponsors if that's something that you're interested in.

    [00:56:04] Monetizing Newsletters: Strategies to Reach Your Seven-Figure Income Goals

    Matt Ragland: The only thing we didn't talk about, I'll just touch on it briefly, is the membership subscription model. 

    Ramli John: Right? 

    Matt Ragland: And Jay Klaus is the best person that I know, period about, like, especially for a newsletter. 

    Matt Ragland: There are plenty of paid newsletters on substack. 

    Matt Ragland: You can go look at those business models. 

    Matt Ragland: They can be really profitable. 

    Matt Ragland: But the thing that I've been thinking about and have been experienced is I've done some work with Ryan Holiday in the past and have gotten to see how his business is set up. 

    Matt Ragland: And one of the things that I think is really so this is like Daily Stoic. 

    Matt Ragland: Daily dad obstacle is the way stoicism all the things he has a membership that I don't think most people know about. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, exactly. 

    Ramli John: I didn't know. 

    Matt Ragland: It's a natural extension of the newsletter itself. 

    Matt Ragland: And it is kind of in the substacky way of like, you're going to get extra stuff and less of other things. 

    Matt Ragland: I e ads and sponsors. 

    Matt Ragland: But what he does with his so he has the daily emails. 

    Matt Ragland: If you sign up to Daily Stoic Life, I think it's $200 a year, basically $18 a month. 

    Matt Ragland: And you don't have to see any ads on any of the emails. 

    Matt Ragland: Not that he has a lot, but a few each week, which is not every email. 

    Matt Ragland: You also get weekend emails. 

    Matt Ragland: So it truly is daily. 

    Matt Ragland: You get access to a forum. 

    Matt Ragland: And the other catch on this is that Ryan does have a handful of courses that he launches every eight to twelve weeks. 

    Matt Ragland: New Year, New You is the most popular one, the beginning of the year. 

    Matt Ragland: But if you're a member of and each of these courses are anywhere from $100 to $200 the whole year membership, which you already get extra stuff, you get extra emails, you don't have to see any ads, and you get access to every course. 

    Matt Ragland: So each course is 100 $200. 

    Matt Ragland: If you sign up to the membership, you get all of those included. 

    Matt Ragland: So it's a very low lift membership for him. 

    Matt Ragland: And this is all because it all is inclusive of everything that he's doing. 

    Matt Ragland: You don't have to see ads. 

    Matt Ragland: I don't have any great conversion numbers on that. 

    Matt Ragland: But there are the more what we think of as memberships often or subscriptions, the way that I kind of bucket them is like what Jay is doing with a very active community, with creator science. 

    Matt Ragland: He's great. 

    Matt Ragland: And then there's more of the substac model, which is like, hey, you're going to get extra stuff. 

    Matt Ragland: And it's like five to $8 a month. 

    Matt Ragland: That's the substack model, more of a subscription than a membership. 

    Matt Ragland: And then what Ryan does is it is kind of a hybrid of both because as far as I know, he's not overly involved in the community of it, but it's more about access to the courses and a lack of ads and additional content. 

    Matt Ragland: So that's another piece of it as well. 

    Matt Ragland: I do think that's a very viable model, especially if you have a larger list as a way to even if people don't have C ads, a lot of people don't like C ads, and that's a way to do it. 

    Matt Ragland: And if you're offering courses on top of that, then it's a pretty straightforward sale in terms of a value proposition to say if you bought all these courses, it would be $800 or it's a $200 membership and you get extra emails and you don't have to see any ads. 

    Matt Ragland: So the membership subscription model is definitely another thing to consider from a monetization strategy, because if you convert 2.5% of your audience at $200 a year these are not Ryan's numbers, to be clear, but if you convert 2.5% of your audience, if you have 100,000 people on your newsletter, you convert 2.5% of that audience, which is not super duper high. 

    Matt Ragland: It's not super low either. 

    Matt Ragland: It's a solid number at $200 a year. 

    Matt Ragland: That's a $500,000 membership. 

    Matt Ragland: That's just memberships. 

    Matt Ragland: And then if you are getting $2,500 per send for a sponsorship, which is again not crazy for 100,000 people, now you're doing 120K on sponsorships. 

    Matt Ragland: So we're getting to like 650K, not counting courses, not counting coaching, not counting consulting. 

    Matt Ragland: You're well on your way to seven figures just through sponsorships and memberships without having any other products available. 

    Matt Ragland: And you will naturally have other products available. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, but you have to send the newsletter. 

    Ramli John: Yeah, that's true. 

    Ramli John: You got to send the newsletter. 

    Ramli John: It's important. 

    Ramli John: Shout out to Jay Klaus. 

    Ramli John: I'm part of his creator science community. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, of course, Jay's. 

    Matt Ragland: Awesome. 

    Ramli John: Thank you for that sharing for that seven steps, seven figures. 

    Ramli John: I hope that helps marketers if they're thinking about building their own side hustle and making really seven figures out of it, making people full time.

    [01:01:28] Matt Ragland discusses career resilience and finding true gifts

    Ramli John: I want to shift gears and you've already said your career power up. 

    Ramli John: I just want to reread exactly what it is. 

    Ramli John: Again, you're talking about like, you will survive. 

    Ramli John: There's a song stuck in my head. 

    Ramli John: I'm a survivor, right? 

    Ramli John: Like Destiny Child or even the other one, much older one. 

    Ramli John: Can you just reiterate again what that career path? 

    Ramli John: You worked at many different places at AppSumo ConvertKit, at Kodia, and you've been doing your own stuff now since 2020. 

    Matt Ragland: Yeah, my power up has been that I'm very dedicated, I'm very consistent, I will stick with it and I will show up. 

    Matt Ragland: I will do the work. 

    Matt Ragland: The power up that I'm developing on top of that is really starting to better understand where more of my true gifts and opportunities lie that are past. 

    Matt Ragland: Just like I'm going to keep showing up and sticking to it. 

    Matt Ragland: That matters. 

    Matt Ragland: But if you. 

    Matt Ragland: Can add a key differentiating factor or source of courage to amplify that. 

    Matt Ragland: That's where I'm at right now. 

    Ramli John: Such a good conversation. 

    Ramli John: I know we got deep into philosophy, but this episode also has a bunch of practical tips. 

    Ramli John: You can find out more about Matt by following him on Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube. 

    Ramli John: You can also go to 

    Ramli John: You can find all of that link in the show. 

    Ramli John: Notes and Description thank you to Matt for being on the show. 

    Ramli John: If you enjoyed this episode, you'd love the Marketing Powerups newsletter. 

    Ramli John: To share the actionable, takeaways and break down the frameworks of world class marketers, you can go to subscribe and you'll instantly unlock the three best frameworks that top marketers use, hit their KPIs consistently, and wow their colleagues. 

    Ramli John: I want to say thank you to you for listening and please like and follow Marketing Powerups on YouTube, Apple, Podcasts and Spotify. 

    Ramli John: If you feel extra generous, kindly leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave a comment on YouTube. 

    Ramli John: Goes a long way in others finding out about Marketing Power ups. 

    Ramli John: Thanks to Mary Sullivan for creating the artwork and design. 

    Ramli John: And thank you to Faisal KAIGO for editing the intro video. 

    Ramli John: Of course, thank you for listening. 

    Ramli John: So for now, have a powered update. 

    Matt Ragland: Marketing power ups. 

    Matt Ragland: Until the next episode.


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